what would you do in this situation as a EMT-B

[spenac]

Woa, wait, what? How did I end up in that post?

You know I always consult you on all DOS, (Dead on scene's).

[WendyT]

I hope I read this wrong, but are you saying that you wouldn't treat a patient that don't have a valid DNR? What about if you work in a system, as outlined above, that don't require a DNR form if certain procedures were followed?

Here's the case regardless of what the issue is, if he died and there's no dnr signed do we really have the the right to touch him. That's why I am confused, one of you says one thing then the other person says something else.

Depending where you are I guess it would matter and if my partner said he's going do cpr then I'm with him.

[brentoli]

Here's the case regardless of what the issue is, if he died and there's no dnr signed do we really have the the right to touch him. That's why I am confused, one of you says one thing then the other person says something else.

Depending where you are I guess it would matter and if my partner said he's going do cpr then I'm with him.

No you don't have just the right. You have the RESPONSIBILITY. You have the duty to act. There is an implied consent to touch them if you do not have paperwork in hand that says otherwise. If you stood around and did nothing, you are not liable and responsible for his death. I think you have things backwards Wendy. A DNR is a Do NOT Resuscitate order.

[JPINFV]

Here's the case regardless of what the issue is, if he died and there's no dnr signed do we really have the the right to touch him. That's why I am confused, one of you says one thing then the other person says something else.

Depending where you are I guess it would matter and if my partner said he's going do cpr then I'm with him.

Barring other factors that should be spelled out well in advance [ex family members requesting that you withhold/withdraw resuscitation, DNR bracelet, durable power of attorney: health care present, etc], you have implied consent to treat. Depending on the type of DNR present, you might very well be able to do somethings and not others [i had a patient who was quite acutely sick once whose DNR stated yes to epi, yes to dopamine, no to everything else. My partner and I called medics and the medics respected the patients wish not to be intubated. The physician at the hospital respected the same wish when we arrived].

[crutledge856]

Well technically I am an EMT special skills so I don't know that this post will count LOL, but here goes. Before I ever left the transfer facility with the invalid DNR order I would have attempted to obtain a valid one, if that was not possible I would have explained to the family and the pt that without a valid DNR order I am legally obligated to work the code if something goes wrong during transport. That way every knows upfront that I will take "heroic measures" should the need arise. If the family is not ok with that then I won't transport the patient, I would call medical control and No Transport. I don't know about you guys but I worked hard to earn my patch and I fully intend to keep it.

[JPINFV]

You know I always consult you on all DOS, [s:a74bc9b69a](Dead on scene's)[/s:a74bc9b69a].

c:

CDemtcityBLScareWhatWouldYouDoInThisSituationAsAEMT-B

post

[Amytxn4]

You did the right thing to call the ER and you got verbal order of not to resucitate... One thing I would add to that is get your run report signed by the "doctor" that stated that over the phone to protect your rear end. These days, everything seems to be rules, rules, rules, and more rules as well as a bunch of protocols. *sigh*

[certguy]

I'm with several of the others . If there's a problem with the DNR , get it squared away prior to transport to avoid headaches all around . In situations where there's not a valid DNR , CYB ( cover your backside ) and follow your protocols . When the actual death occurs , families have been known to change thier minds . The family may not understand at the time , But you're covering yourself , your partner and your agency from a potential lawsuit . Make sure everything's documented well .

CERTGUY

[cntrygirl1970]

you did what you are suppose to do. The Dnr in our county protocols are its invalid if not signed by family Doc and Patient.

[JPINFV]

you did what you are suppose to do.

Wow, that's some good advise. So, what do you do in this situation? Well, you do what you're supposed to do. I guess EMT class can be done in a day then.

/me shrugs and gives up.