EMT's Performing Selected ALS?

[ERDoc]

Charge nurse for a dialysis unit?

Is it me, or is that 38/hr job sound just a bit too simple...i mean really...

I needed to edit my post after your post. She was a nursing supervisor, not a charge nurse. It is not as easy as you think. They had over 30 chairs in the unit, all of which were full. On top on clinical duties, she had administrative duties too. Don't judge till you've been in someone's shoes. People may say that EMS is a bit simple too, you only take care of 1 pt at a time and, depending on where in the country you are, spend only a few minutes with that pt (not my opinion, just playing devils advocate).

[VentMedic]

In most cases, the RNs wage is dependent on the geographical region where the RN works and not necessarily the education level. The percentage of BSN degrees is relatively low on a national average. Two years will do just fine to get you a well paying job.

Many jobs in the South are in the $25 range.

Naples, FL

http://www.nchhcs.org/default.aspx?id=547&link=navmenu

However, in the Northeast and Northern Caliornia, $38 is below nursing minimum wage. New grad RN (with 2 yr degree and in some States, the "mail order" program) start at $40 benefited. PRN is $55 to $75 and that may include housing if you are a traveler. California is also one State where there is an established nurse/pt ratio. I can only speak for a couple of States in the South where the nurses have a heavy load for half the money. In CA and the Northeast, powerful nursing unions and unity.....

San Francisco

http://ucsfhr.ucsf.edu/careers/ go to salary ranges

or

http://ucsfhr.ucsf.edu/apps/tpp/searchresults.php

You could also check the starting pay scale for San Francisco FD. Not too shabby.

Of course housing prices in SF are untouchable by most. However, the cost of living in Florida isn't that great now with rising home prices due to material/construction costs, insurance (homeowners and car), and utilities.

For EMTs and medics;

In the 30 years I've been involved in EMS, very little strides have been made in entry level education in the US. Very little has been done with unity...no reliable State or National organizations to go to bat for EMTs. A few have come and gone through the years, but the egos or "lack of interest" have disrupted any chance of establishing a solid foundation in this profession. Other allied health professions have rallied for their cause. OT, PT, Radiology, RT etc. These groups keep lobbyists in Washingon DC to fight for insurance re-embursement and inclusion in any national policy that might affect them.

Here's another thought; how about raising the entry level of EMT-B to the number of hours (1040) required of the EMT-P? And, model our EMT-P program after our Canadian neighbors with a couple more years of training at entry. Thus we could eliminate the "12 week medic" programs that can give the profession a black eye in the long run.

Just a thought....

[Dustdevil]

Damn... Asys almost talked me into believing in organised labour just now. :shock:

I must be losing my principles in my old age.

But yeah... a little light just went on in my head. :?

[Asysin2leads]

That's why I added the pro-commie comments at the end Dust, I realized I sounded a bit Marxist in these theories. I'm not really all socialist and workers unite and stuff. I worked for a store where the owner was fiercly conservative and I saw how unnecessary intrusion into private business can really be a detriment to free enterprise, I've worked for a non-unionized ambulance company that treated its workers like crap and saw the ugly side of making a profit in EMS, and now I work a civil service job as part of a union, which isn't too bad, so I've seen the benefits and drawbacks of many different types of labor relations.

Of course organized labor isn't always a good thing, just look at what the UAW did to Detroit. Simply put, however, EMT's doing IV's and advanced procedures not only is bad medicine, but from a strictly economic stand point, it takes money out of the pockets of paramedics and gives it to the owners or shareholders of whatever company you work for, or in cases like mine, takes it out of the pockets of paramedics and gives it back to the city, and quite frankly, I'd rather some shareholder get my money than methadone clinics, but I digress.

Take our proposed "Mensa Medic" program, where instead of 2 paramedics you have 1 paramedic and 1 EMT. Do you really think we have a crisis of ALS numbers to the point of this drastic action being taken? Or do you think some ugly, short, mean spirited bean counter with coke bottle thick glasses said "Hey, Medicare only requires one paramedic to make patient contact to bill for an ALS transport! MUHUWAHAHAHA!!" Do you think when this was being considered, someone said "Well, if we do this, we'll CERTAINLY have to pay the paramedics more because we'll be increasing their workload?" I doubt it.

I really think EMS must be about one of the only professions where if someone said "Hey, who wants to work more and get paid less?", a couple of hands would go up in the room. Being a hero and wanting to do as much as possible to help others is fine. Being a tool of the man in his quest to persecute and oppress my brothers is not.

[NREMT-Basic]

In what way would an EMT starting an IV take money out of the Paramedics pockets. Last time I checked, most services are volly, paid by call, paid by hour, or for some advanced paramedic positions, the medic receives a salary. I honestly dont see that having a Basic start an IV line is more expensive for the community, since if we Basics started IVs, it would probably become considered a BLS intervention and would hold down the cost to the commuity since BLS fees are less than ALS. Its not like the Medic gets paid for each IV he starts. The only time that the shear number of IVs you start makes a difference is when you are working that 1000 hours of clinical time in the ED or in a rig. Your argument really does not hold water or make any sense, nor does it seemed to be grounded in the realities of how EMS works. I now have a second license in Wisconsin and am being uptrained to start IVs. Tell me...how am I taking money away from my medic partner.

[NREMT-Basic]

Whats your beef with methadone clinics?

[BushyFromOz]

Tell me...how am I taking money away from my medic partner.

By maquerading and inferior product at the same standard as a medic at half the price. While EMS'ers may not necessarily believe this, joe public and the bean counters will fall for it every time.

they are driven by the bottom line

[Dustdevil]

Your argument really does not hold water or make any sense, nor does it seemed to be grounded in the realities of how EMS works. I now have a second license in Wisconsin and am being uptrained to start IVs. Tell me...how am I taking money away from my medic partner.

Come on, NR. You're really too smart for this silliness. You're contradicting yourself right and left, and the answer is really so obvious. Just think about it for a couple of minutes.

Ponder these two words: supply and demand.

[EMT/S31]

So we have EMT-B's to do BLS skills EMT-P's to do ALS skills and, oh ya I remember we have EMT-I's to do some select ALS skills. Imagine that the National Registry already came up with a EMT level that can do a little of both ALS and BLS. Oh and for those Paramedics bitching about their pay, if you could be a little more professional at times the other medical professions would take you a little more seriously. I have seen paramedics spend an entire call trying to start a line, but never stop the bleeding, I have seen them take their shoes off and lay down on the bench while they were transporting a patient, oh and by the way these were full time private services that do a couple thousand calls a year.

Needless to say their are just as many errors made by EMT-B's as EMT-p's. But getting back to my original point no EMT-B's should not be allowed to use LMA's and IO's. That is the why we created a mid level provider called the EMT-I who can do some ALS procedures like these.

[1EMT-P]

If you want to discuss nursing or nursing wages please start another thread. This thread is about EMT-Basics performing select ALS skills.