Would this be a HIPAA issue?

[DwayneEMTP]

I'm going to make a lot of assumptions for the sake of argument...

Assume that the rescuer in this story was called by a newspaper for his comments. He did not identify the patient, simply responded to questions, without permission, about a person identified by the reporter...Did he violate HIPAA?

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/articl...p;siteSection=1

Florida Partial Decapitation Victim Meets Lifesaver

BILLY TOWNSEND

Tampa Tribune (Florida)

LAKELAND - It was a gruesome way to start a friendship.

A paint truck and a dump truck collided on West Pipkin Road in Lakeland on the morning of Oct. 24. Jason Dougherty, an off-duty Tampa firefighter and paramedic who lives in Lakeland, happened onto the aftermath.

Dressed in shorts, T-shirt, flip-flops and a baseball cap, Dougherty approached the driver of the paint truck, who was walking around in a daze. Dougherty saw blood, but couldn't tell where it was coming from.

"Look up at me," he said to the man, 24-year-old Paul Wadleigh, of Brandon.

What Dougherty saw was shocking: The glass of Wadleigh's windshield had sliced deeply into his throat, cutting his jugular veins and trachea.

"It was a partial decapitation," Dougherty said.

In an instant, Dougherty called for onlookers to bring towels he could use to slow the bleeding until emergency responders arrived.

"I basically put a tourniquet around his neck," Dougherty said.

Then he shared a very hard truth with this stranger. It would be a struggle for Wadleigh to survive long enough to reach the hospital.

"I told him the only way he would make it through was with sheer will," Dougherty said. "And he showed me he understood."

Wadleigh did make it to the hospital with Dougherty by his side in the back of a Polk County ambulance, exhorting him to stay conscious.

"I gave him a little slap on the cheek and told him, 'Look at me. Don't give up on yourself,'" Dougherty said.

Wadleigh never did. He survived emergency surgery and is expected to recover fully from his injuries. His voice is garbled, but improving. He's able to walk on his own. And his parents say he suffered no neurological damage. They hope he will come home by Thanksgiving.

On Thursday, about three weeks after the crash, Wadleigh and his family got to thank and embrace the man they say saved his life.

"I feel like he gave me my son back," said Judy Wadleigh, who is a nurse at St. Joseph's Hospital in Tampa and set up the meeting.

"How you doin,' brother?" Dougherty said, walking into the hospital room. "You look a lot better than the last time I saw you."

The men spent about 30 minutes together. They talked of having a beer together or going fishing when Wadleigh fully recovers. They reflected a bit on the accident. Wadleigh's memories are fleeting. But he recalls touching his throat and thinking: "Oh, God."

Now, other than a narrow scar running beneath his chin and some fading facial scratches, Wadleigh's labored voice is the only obvious fallout from the crash.

Dougherty, 30, lives near the crash site in Lakeland. But he works at Fire Station 18 in East Tampa.

"He just epitomizes a good work ethic," said Nick LoCicero, the department's rescue chief. "He's willing to assist in any way he can. That's evident in how he responded in this case."

Dougherty, who credited Wadleigh's survival to Lakeland Regional Medical Center's trauma surgeons and Wadleigh's own will, said he was proud to have helped but was a little embarrassed by the attention.

"I had a little bit of training and was able to help," he said. "Anybody else would have done the same thing."

Reporter Billy Townsend can be reached at (863) 284-1409 .

Have a great day all...

Dwayne

[JPINFV]

Sounds like he was off duty at the time. Thus he responded as a private citizen and, to the best of my knowledge, does not fall under the control of HIPAA

[MeekoBB]

I wouldn't think so much, unless its the paramedic(company) or the hospital that went to the papers....if it was the pt himself or his family that went to the papers with the informations it wouldn't fall upon HIPAA.

[Thunderchild145]

Hmm. This is a tough one. The newspaper has the right to reveal whatever they want and dont have to worry about HIPPA. The provider can pretty much tell the entire story of what happened, but can't reveal a name or any identification. However, since the newpaper already had I.D. he pretty much knew that if he told them anything, there would be a name put to his story.

I know it is even against HIPPA (In the hospital, if someone calls asking how Tom George is doing) to tell them anything specific. I would think this is something similar. At the very least, this guy should probably get a verbal warning and some sort of HIPPA familiarization. Toeing the line means you probably dont know when to stop.

[EmergencyMedicalTigger]

Well based on your assumptions it might be a HIPPA violation. It's true that he wasn't on duty when he responded, but he rode in the back of the ambulance, so did he assume pt care? If so, then technically it might be a violation, especially if he didn't get permission to release information. Just b/c a newspaper knows the name of the pt doesn't mean he had the right to say anythinig other than basically "Yes I was there and assisted in care of pts at the scene." The way it was written, you really can't tell entirely what information was supplied by the medic other than the quotes.

[In2bate]

First off all I must commend you for the job you did. When we respond to a call on or off duty once we begin patient care we must be careful as to what we tell other people not in the care of the patient. You are asking a fine line as did you divulge to much information. If this happened where I work the system would say yes. Don't let this stop you from helping in the future but be careful of the press they have a tendency to put words in our mouth. My partner had a situation over a year ago and spoke the press without permission and got in trouble. Family stated they did not give out all the information the Medic did and from there is was a big mess.

[Lone Star]

I think that since the Paramedic started treating the patient, (in this case trying to control bleeding), even though he was off duty, the rules of HIPAA still apply.

When contacted by the press, the medic in question should have simply stated that yes, he did take action, and that he did what had to be done to help insure the patients chances for survival. Whether or not he would 'do it again' is not a question. As far as going into treatments, a long winded story about what he did, what he found, the patients condition should have been avoided.

HIPAA does not make conditions about patient confidentiality. Just because the press figured it out, responded to the scene and got the information...does NOT free the medic from the HIPAA guidelines (whether on duty or off)

[akflightmedic]

I still don't understand why people make this HIPAA so damn complex.

HIPAA applies to businesses, agencies, clinics, whatever that BILL for their services.

He is a Tampa firefighter that was off duty in Lakeland which is quite aways from Tampa so there was not even an inkling of affiliation being represented by his agency. The responding agency(Lakeland) did not put anythiing in the press.

This is not a HIPAA issue. It comes down to medical ethics, courtesy and common sense.

As for what he told the press, none of his "direct quotes" gave away any revealing information which HIPAA was created to protect.

In addition, this story was written with the patients approval as it told the story of the two of them meeting in the hospital and planning a future beer. It isnt as if this all occurred in the paper the very next day with quotes from the medic on scene.

[akflightmedic]

I'm going to make a lot of assumptions for the sake of argument...

Assume that the rescuer in this story was called by a newspaper for his comments. He did not identify the patient, simply responded to questions, without permission, about a person identified by the reporter...Did he violate HIPAA?

Ok I missed this little tidbit when I posted. However it still stands, the direct quotes he gave is not a violation of HIPAA, however it could be a major violation of his employer's policy. Usually SOGs state all media requests be turned over to the officer on duty or the PIO.

Edit: And even then its not a violation of his employers policy cause he was not even in his employers jurisdiciton. He was a civilian in another agencies area rendering basic first aid, thats it.

[DwayneEMTP]

I still don't understand why people make this HIPAA so damn complex.

When I went to the basic academy they just pounded on it...We must have heard 30 stories similar to:

“Your treating a gunshot victim. While loading him into the ambulance he says 'Joe did it' just before becoming unconscious, A cop asks 'did he say anything?'. You say, he said 'Joe did it.'

At which point you are pulled from the back of the ambulance, stripped naked in the snow, and flogged publicly. Your naked picks (complete with shrinkage from the cold, which may be the worst part) are posted to the internet. You are fined $8,000,000 dollars. They tattoo HIPAA Violator onto the foreheads of your wife and children...which causes them to dislike you...Friends, coworkers and strangers alike, spit at you on the street and they send your name to every known telemarketer in the U.S., causing you to be approved for 6,000 low interest loans if you'll just refinance the mortgage on the property you are renting, TODAY.

We never really got into the language in class... and I haven't done it after since as it seems like you just don't talk to anyone not directly related to patient care, about anything. But since then I've come to see that at times it might even be more complicated than that...

For example, I'm not sure if their valid...but stories I've heard. You tell your partner that you picked up a violent, spitting, biting AIDS patient. You tell your partner to be careful if they have to pick him up because he bites and has AIDS. Your partner tells the people at the hospital...and you're immediately pulled from your warm bed, and stripped naked....Yeah...you get the point.

I guess bottom line is I'm going to have to read it for myself...

Have a great day all!

Dwayne