TAC EMS peoples

[SuperKoopa]

Job description from REMSA's website (REMSA is Reno-Sparks Area EMS in Nevada):

Tactical Paramedics areas of expertise include:

* Preventative medicine for SWAT members (pre-medical exams, blood lab work, nutrition, and hydration logistics).

* Medicine for extended operations.

* Clandestine drug laboratory raids, and medical affects.

* Care under fire

* Medical care in barricade situations.

* Medical planning and intelligence.

* Wounding effects of lethal and less-lethal weapons.

* Crime scene preservation

[mtnsldr]

Mntsldr: You never answered my question: Are you combat life saver certified? If you are and you had good instructors, You have the best "tactical medic " training already.

Sure there are companies that sell the same info for more $$$ but if you understood TC3 in the course, you have what you need plus you got real experience "kicking" doors Not every self proclaimed TEMS expert can say that.

SOMEDIC

I am not CLS certified. Myself and the other leadership were required to leave both training sessions to handle other situations during our mobilization. I hear this next trip I have to become certified to deploy.

That being said, from what I have seen much of the training you pay for has more in it than CLS does. You don't do live tissue in CLS, you don't learn how to manage bleeds with TQ's in CLS (only how to apply them, and are in fact taught never to remove a TQ, ever, which isn't entirely accurate, just Joe proof) among many other things. CLS is a great beginning, and is more in the Trauma department than EMT-B, however I don't think the blanket statement that CLS = TEMS is accurate at all.

[somedic]

Mntsldr: Im not getting into my military credentials but they predate your enlistment and are well over your pay grade. I am a "tactical medic" among other things in my civilian job.

I have a real interest in CLS and the content of the course. TQ application is taught in the course as well as when to remove them.

As far as TEMS not being =to CLS...Its like this: Im not getting in to my operational experience here because I have no one I want to wow also I could get in trouble for security reasons..Im sure you know this. The practice of TC3 is the best beginnig for any aspiring TEMS medic. Live tissue lab?....Just where did you hear that from?Not too many military classes in that outside of North Carolina.

Take a CLS class and you will see what I mean. Save your money and dont get involved in one of those TEMS courses that my Dept got screwed on. More on that if you are interested.

Good luck on your deployment

SOMEDIC

[Just Plain Ruff]

Michael go out and rent willy wonka and the chocolate factory and see the oompah's in action or go here

believe it or not I had a hard time finding a truly good picture of a oompah Loompah and I consider myself a google search expert.

oh well go find it yourself or someone else might be able to find it.

[Michael]

Ruffens - Thanks. In case my post above yours wasn't clear, I found our friends at youtube.com. They send you greetings.

[Dustdevil]

I'm afraid I have to agree with somedic. The vast majority of these so-called "tactical medic" courses have little to no medical content. They aren't for making medics out of tacticians. They are for making tacticians out of medics. Think about the term itself. It says "tactical medic." It doesn't say "emergency surgical medic." It doesn't say "super secret special medical skills that other medics don't have medic." It's just a regular medic with some basic training on tactics, which hopefully helps you to tag along with a tactical unit and not get in the way too much. That's it. The medical competency you enter with is the same medical competency that you are leaving with, assuming you don't lose any brain cells during the training. Basically, most of them want a couple thousand dollars for the pleasure of crawling through the mud, doing IADs and push-ups, busting a few caps, and just basically playing army for a weekend. Except for the very rare school (which are restricted to federal and military participants), you won't learn a single thing about "medicine," just tactics. That is why the term "tactical medic" is really a joke in the US, and why you find so many of us laughing our arses off at all the hoopla over the entire concept. It's sort of like "flight medic." The ability to fly doesn't make you any better of a medic than you were before. It just inflates your cranium.

So... if you are in a position to actually join such a tactical team, and have an actual need for training to help you integrate with law enforcement teams, tactically speaking, then go for it. Let them pay your way to a week of playing army in the mud. After all, any team professional enough to be worth joining will send their own people to training. They won't take walk-on, freelance "tactical medics." I really can't imagine any medic wasting money out of their own pocket for this crap that they will never, ever have a single hope of using, just so they can call themselves a "tactical medic." That's like paying your way through the police academy, then calling yourself a cop, even though you aren't employed as a cop. It's just silly. And pointless.

And yes, CLS is much, much better and more relevant training than any so-called "tactical medic" school available to civilians. It is actually about medicine.

[somedic]

Dusty: Well written and so very true! EXCELLENT post.

MY department got SCREWED by a now closed company calling itself "Mission First". I told my boss that I had serious doubts about the staff teaching this "Tactical medic" class. The primary instructor started the class by saying he was a Ranger in the Blackhawk Down mission in 1993 but will not talk about it...(why bring it up then? first untruth he told.) Another instructor claimed to actually be be an operator in the very same unit Im in!....One phone call confirmed that he turned out to be a pathological liar. We also had a " Navy SEAL" and some other bad asses.

The medicine we learned: 1.Drag a patient on a poleless litter. 2.Dont try to intubate with a laryngoscope -light might give you away( TC3 was not mentioned in this course) 3. Try to perform a full exam under fire and in darkness (we actually practiced this with instructors firing blanks and yelling "hurry up" so dramatic! (again TC3 not applied)

The rest of the day and 1/2 was spent learning how to move in a stack (tactical formation). Oh and they did drop a flash bang in front of us to let us get a feel for how it works...what ever. We learned nothing and actually found out we were better medics than the people trying to teach us.

Im very cynical about tactical medicine in the civilian world. There are some agencies that do have it together. But like Dustdevil said true medicine remains the same whether you call yourself a TEMT-P, Tactical medic, testicular medic or what ever. The true TACTICAL MEDICS have been or will be deployed to OIF and OEF and future GWOT operations.

SOMEDIC

[itku2er]

Dusty: Well written and so very true! EXCELLENT post.

MY department got SCREWED by a now closed company calling itself "Mission First". I told my boss that I had serious doubts about the staff teaching this "Tactical medic" class. The primary instructor started the class by saying he was a Ranger in the Blackhawk Down mission in 1993 but will not talk about it...(why bring it up then? first untruth he told.) Another instructor claimed to actually be be an operator in the very same unit Im in!....One phone call confirmed that he turned out to be a pathological liar. We also had a " Navy SEAL" and some other bad asses.

The medicine we learned: 1.Drag a patient on a poleless litter. 2.Dont try to intubate with a laryngoscope -light might give you away( TC3 was not mentioned in this course) 3. Try to perform a full exam under fire and in darkness (we actually practiced this with instructors firing blanks and yelling "hurry up" so dramatic! (again TC3 not applied)

The rest of the day and 1/2 was spent learning how to move in a stack (tactical formation). Oh and they did drop a flash bang in front of us to let us get a feel for how it works...what ever. We learned nothing and actually found out we were better medics than the people trying to teach us.

Im very cynical about tactical medicine in the civilian world. There are some agencies that do have it together. But like Dustdevil said true medicine remains the same whether you call yourself a TEMT-P, Tactical medic, testicular medic or what ever. The true TACTICAL MEDICS have been or will be deployed to OIF and OEF and future GWOT operations.

SOMEDIC[/quote

:wav: =D>

[jtski908]

Hi,

I am new here and found this thread very interesting. I am shieldman on my SRT at a small PD (60 sworn). I draw a pension in 3 years and will move on to a larger LEA with a larger, more adept SRT (I hope, ). I have just entered a military branch where we are flight medics....I have searched around on the net and found several EMTT schools that are govt certified, etc. I plan on moving into the tactical emt type career field. After I recert my NREMT, I plan accomplishing my A.S. in paramedicine. While waiting to get my time in (to draw the pension) my plan is to finish all the critical care, pre hosp etc etc stuff I can get thru my unit....I was also planning on taking one of "those" EMTT courses just more for the experience.....

I will attempt to list them-I'd welcome opinions. I was a firefighter/emt active military back in the day (4 years), but that is the only med experience I have.....

I think the first one is CONTOMS would that be considered the best most respected...I figure I have access to that one as I am LEO and am back in the MIL

www.casualtycareresearchcenter.org

www.tacticalmedicine.com

www.tangentedge.com

www.swatmedics.org

www.emtt.org

How can these courses be as inept as some of the posters stated when they are federal certified and gi bill approved and etc?

I am not thumbs up my ass kinda guy...neither do I take such things as I've discussed lightly.....I am seeking answers, preferably from someone who has BTDT....

thanks for any help,

Kel

[p3medic]

Some agencies (LE) required their medics to take CONTOMS or the like, as others have already stated, you are not going to become proficient in any special medical skill in these courses....If you are a medic, and want to be a "tactical" medic, learning the job of a swat officer will serve you better, as the medical knowledge/skillset should already be there, otherwise you are more of a liability than an asset. Just my opinion of course. Being a great medical provider requires providing medicine on a regular basis, i.e, your "real" job....It is much easier to train a great medic to be a pretty good operator than the other way around, but others may disagree....take it for what its worth, save your money and get some more medical education instead.