Advice on ways to ask a sensitive question.

[nwoparamedics]

ahh, but hammerpcp, even in Canada we have private services that must bill patients to keep them afloat.

If you are on social assistance here, then you don't get any bill. If you are employed/ earning your own money, then you pay 45$ per call. Some how they accomplish billing without us, as paramedics, ever inquiring about financial status. Why don't you find out how they manage to pull that off here (Ontario). Or better yet, tell your boss to do his job and figure it out himself.

Actually , in Ontario if you are a Senior, Native or on Social Assistance... you are exempt from the $45 surcharge. If you are from out of Province, then there will be the full cost charged.

With respect to whom collects these monies here in our own little part of the world (which is unique to say the least)... thats a complicated issue due to some of the problems associated with the downloading of services to the districts a few years back.

The OHA made a big stink about losing the funds generated by having Hospital based EMS services (not to mention the free labour), and thus the government allowed them several concessions. The receiving facility now collects the $45 surcharge, essentially billing for services another provider renders and does not forward this on to the Provider. I don't even want to get into how the government downloaded services they could not maintain to their own standards, and in the mean time, allowed the OHA providors to keep the EMS buildings which the Emergency Services Branch paid for, and in turn allows the Hospitals to now bill the providers to use the Ambulance bases that they have resided in for soo many years... but that is another topic entirely...

As for those patients we see from out of Province, many providers have left it up to the receiving facility as well to collect the monies due to the simple fact they have a system in place to do so, and then at a later date they get the re-imbursment for those patient calls.

So you are right in the fact that we as Paramedics do not have to deal with the issue of payment for services here in Ontario, yet it is a vastly different system in even our other Canadian Provinces, let alone the US.

Our Provider collects what monies they can from the recieving facilities, and yes... we have nothing to do with it... that's our bosses job.

[hfdff422]

Us darn capitalists. Yes in the USA it is required to find out how you are going to get paid. We don't have any problems asking who is going to pay us.

[hammerpcp]

ahh, but hammerpcp, even in Canada we have private services that must bill patients to keep them afloat.

So you are right in the fact that we as Paramedics do not have to deal with the issue of payment for services here in Ontario, yet it is a vastly different system in even our other Canadian Provinces, let alone the US.

Two things....

One:Where? What emergency ambulance service in Canada does not receive public monies?

And two: Of course I am right.

And three (okay, three things):How are the other provinces services "drastically different"? Could you justify that statement with some examples?

[Michael]

You could ask what the pharmacist asked the duck who brought the lip-balm to the drugstore counter: Shall I put this on your bill?

[nwoparamedics]

Two things....

One:Where? What emergency ambulance service in Canada does not receive public monies?

And two: Of course I am right.

And three (okay, three things):How are the other provinces services "drastically different"? Could you justify that statement with some examples?

Ha... k Hammer... but it'd be soo much easier just to say... go to www.google.ca and spend a few hours...

1. All Ambulance Services in Canada receive money from the public is some way shape or form. Whether it be private companies here in Ontario (look to air ambulance) billing the province for each person they carry, to our district run services which bill the taxpayers in their communities (as well as billing US residents, out of Province residents, etc...), to Private companies which are contracted out by a region or community in Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba/etc... which either bill their regional health authorities or those whom use the service (from what I understand there is usually a limit per call, plus mileage can be added on). blah blah blah... Ha... we all get public monies from somewhere, whether it be a volunteer service asking for public donations, provincially budgetted and funded systems, or whatever....

2. Ha... sure...

3. Drastically different... hmmm... where to start? Do I start with the EMT style system as compared to the Paramedic system like the national standards are proposing. How about the length of time to even complete the various programs from province to province (i.e. pcp), or how about Provincial run EMS systems like BC with a provincial union, hospital based systems, Private Services, Fire run EMS, etc..... Ooops... ya wanted me to tell ya how we don't have to collect monies from our patients, yet provinces which are run differently than ours (like EMT6388's) might have to?

Hmm... guess the quickest/best way for me to answer this would be to say... EMT6388... why'd you bring this topic up? Ha... hammer thinks your services are run like ours(?) and could ya give him some more info on your province and how things are run? I know, the lazy way out... but I've already taken this topic way off in the wrong direction (might be an idea for new thread though eh?).

Sorry guys and gals... didn't mean to have this subject go off topic...

[akflightmedic]

Dude,

Hammer is a girl...and a hot one at that!

[Dustdevil]

Of course she is.

She's Canadian! :love4:

[hammerpcp]

Guys! SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH you're blowing my cover!

But seriously, my sex (or lack thereof) is completely irrelevant to this topic.

Ha... k Hammer... but it'd be soo much easier just to say... go to www.google.ca and spend a few hours...

1. All Ambulance Services in Canada receive money from the public is some way shape or form. Whether it be private companies here in Ontario (look to air ambulance) billing the province for each person they carry, to our district run services which bill the taxpayers in their communities (as well as billing US residents, out of Province residents, etc...), to Private companies which are contracted out by a region or community in Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba/etc... which either bill their regional health authorities or those whom use the service (from what I understand there is usually a limit per call, plus mileage can be added on). blah blah blah... Ha... we all get public monies from somewhere, whether it be a volunteer service asking for public donations, provincially budgetted and funded systems, or whatever....

2. Ha... sure...

3. Drastically different... hmmm... where to start? Do I start with the EMT style system as compared to the Paramedic system like the national standards are proposing. How about the length of time to even complete the various programs from province to province (i.e. pcp), or how about Provincial run EMS systems like BC with a provincial union, hospital based systems, Private Services, Fire run EMS, etc..... Ooops... ya wanted me to tell ya how we don't have to collect monies from our patients, yet provinces which are run differently than ours (like EMT6388's) might have to?

Hmm... guess the quickest/best way for me to answer this would be to say... EMT6388... why'd you bring this topic up? Ha... hammer thinks your services are run like ours(?) and could ya give him some more info on your province and how things are run? I know, the lazy way out... but I've already taken this topic way off in the wrong direction (might be an idea for new thread though eh?).

Sorry guys and gals... didn't mean to have this subject go off topic...

Sooo, Google is not an option, because I am not searching for any information. I am asking that you justify your opinions and statements. But just for you I googled "nwoparamedics opinions" and came up with this LINK BTW I like dobermans too.

You agree (no matter how buried) that all EMS systems are publicly funded.

I think you may be missing my point. My point is, being that EMS is publicly funded it is not the paramedics responsibility to acquire financial information. In fact, I'll go one step further and say that regardless of whether health care is private or publicly funded, it is not the primary care providers place to inquire about a Pt's financial status. Doing so opens the door to all those nasty convoluted issues I was referring to earlier. Such as, a potential conflicts of interests and discrimination. I don't know about you but I will not willingly open myself up to accusations of this nature. And really, a pt would have every right to become suspicious of a care providers motives. They may in fact even be justified suspicions.

This is what I didn't really want to get into, just for my own personal laziness. But if we must, we must.

The original poster clearly stated that they were being requested to acquire this information from their Pt's to make billing easier. My point is that the potential harm in asking for this type of information far outweighs the potential benefits, and they would not be my benefits anyway. As a paramedic billing is not my problem. It is not my job. And it should not be.

As I said before. If the billing system they are currently using is not effective without resorting to these means, then his employer should find another way of doing billing. For example, by finding out how other provinces achieve the same goal.

Evidently you can provide much information on this topic to this person. I however, don't care at this point.

I stand by my original statement.

Yours truly,

Hammer

[Acosell]

I stand by my original statement.

Yours truly,

Hammer

I'll also stand by that.

-Another NW Ontario Paramedic

[Ridryder 911]

Dude,

Hammer is a girl...and a hot one at that!

Damn .. I didn't know that !!!

R/R 911