Elderly Woman Dies After Nurse Refuses to Give Her CPR

[triemal04]

That POS dispatcher should be fired immedietly as an object lesson to any other idiotic, over-excitable morons who might decide to be an emergency dispatcher.

The news media who are spinning this to portray the staff as terrible people should be shot. (of course this is only the most recent episode of the media playing things up so I can't get to upset over that)

The "legal analyst" at the end of the video should remember that another shyster like himself could probably work up a lawsuit against him after the staff get's screwed over because of the media hype (which will probably happen).

I'll be the first to admit that I've done my share of bitching about staff at various care facilities doing nothing and being idiots (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not), but in this case, even with only knowing a small amount of what actually happened...gotta say that the staff (or nurse or whatever) was in the right. If the dispatcher hadn't been such a fucking retard this never would have come up.

There are, and most likely will continue to be, way to many unanswered questions here, but what it comes down to is another example of the media taking 1 piece of the story (that happens to be so eye catching and makes for great soundbites) and spinning it to get peoples attention.

That's all.

whew, crazy and stupid, all in the same breath. Make no mistake folks, these places are where most of us will evetually end up unless we die in our sleep.

Not neccasarily. On various levels I can understand the staff wanting to know for certain what that particular person wanted done before they started any kind of intervention, even something as simple as compressions. Not the least being the potential legal/financial responsibility; it wouldn't be the first time that a person was given treatment beyond what their advance directives called for (with the person doing the treatment having a copy of them) and ended up with the group that "helped" them being on the hook for ALL the care associated with what they did.

Which, if talking about a cardiac arrest could be a very high number.

[P_Instructor]

No morals, no ethics. Societal changes that is sending this country downhill. I would own that whole franchise of nursing homes if it was my family member.

Triemal04......what do you mean 'POS dispatcher' should be fired? They were trying to do the best they could trying to get assistance to the patient. The only morons in this case were the facility employees that can't/won't do the right thing.

[paramedicmike]

No morals, no ethics. Societal changes that is sending this country downhill. I would own that whole franchise of nursing homes if it was my family member.

And what societal changes are those? What moral and ethical offenses are under consideration here?

The only morons in this case were the facility employees that can't/won't do the right thing.

Really? How so?

[triemal04]

No morals, no ethics. Societal changes that is sending this country downhill. I would own that whole franchise of nursing homes if it was my family member.

Triemal04......what do you mean 'POS dispatcher' should be fired? They were trying to do the best they could trying to get assistance to the patient. The only morons in this case were the facility employees that can't/won't do the right thing.

Really? You think so? What if your family member signed a form that said they understood that no CPR would be given at that facility, or that, since it was a independant living facility, no emergency care would be given beyond calling 911? What if your family member had filled out advance directives that explicity stated that she did not want CPR or advanced care? Hell, what if your family member wasn't even dead during that whole 911 call?

While you might win a jury trial because to many people in the public decide things based off emotion, can you show me where the nurse/staff member was legally obligated to perform CPR or do anything beyond call 911?

There are a lot of questions that need to be answered (but won't be) to get a clear picture of what happened. This really is nothing more than the media hyping a case that will get people emotionally upset and draw viewers.

I say POS dispatcher because she is. Over-excitable...argumentative...way to emotional...not traits you want in someone who is supposed to be dealing with the general public when they call 911. If she is the person who informed the press about it gotta figure she violated departmental policy as well. So yeah...fire her.

[P_Instructor]

The ICN Code

• According to the ICN, a nurse’s
  primary responsibility is to patients, and she should treat them with
  respect for their rights, values, customs and beliefs. Personal
  information she learns about them should remain confidential. In addition,
  she should continue her learning because she is personally responsible and
  accountable for good nursing practice and she should take care of her own health so it doesn’t interfere with
  her ability to care for others. She should co-operate with her co-workers
  but, if a patient’s health or safety is threatened by others, she must
  take action to protect them.
  

The ANA Code

• Like the ICN, the American
  Nurses Association believes that a nurse’s first commitment is to her
  patient, and she should have compassion and respect for every individual
  no matter who they are, what kind of health problems they have, or what
  social and economic background they come from. A nurse also has a duty to
  establish, maintain, and improve health care environments and conditions of employment so that high quality
  health care can be provided. She should work to improve health
  care locally, nationally, and internationally, and she should also work
  through her professional associations to influence social policy
  concerning health care. Finally, she has a duty to maintain her own
  competence and to grow personally and professionally.
  

Types of Ethical Issues

• Registered nurses responding to
  a 2006 survey reported 21 different ethical issues they faced while caring
  for their patients. These issues included the use of restraints, pain
  management, determining best interest of the patient, organ
  donation, life-sustaining treatment and end of life care, reporting
  errors, dealing with impaired nurses, conflicts of interest, justice for
  people with disabilities, the ethics of research and the use of
  information technology and confidentiality.
  

Nurse Dissatisfaction

• In a study investigating the
  relationship between ethics and the intent of nurses and social workers to
  leave their profession, researcher Connie Ulrich, Ph.D., RN discovered
  that 25 percent of practicing nurses and social workers wanted to leave
  the field. More than 52 percent of those who responded said they were
  frustrated with the ethical issues they faced. Hospital workers reported
  more ethical stress than caregivers
  who worked in other settings. Nearly 40 percent of hospital workers
  reported they had no organizational resources to help them with their
  ethical concerns, while another 25 percent said they had never received
  any ethical training.

[paramedicmike]

The ICN Code

• According to the ICN, a nurse’s

  primary responsibility is to patients, and she should treat them with

  respect for their rights, values, customs and beliefs. Personal

  information she learns about them should remain confidential. In addition,

  she should continue her learning because she is personally responsible and

  accountable for good nursing practice and she should take care of her own health so it doesn’t interfere with

  her ability to care for others. She should co-operate with her co-workers

  but, if a patient’s health or safety is threatened by others, she must

  take action to protect them.

What information do you have to indicate that the patient's rights, values, customs or beliefs were not respected?

The ANA Code

• Like the ICN, the American

  Nurses Association believes that a nurse’s first commitment is to her

  patient, and she should have compassion and respect for every individual

  no matter who they are, what kind of health problems they have, or what

  social and economic background they come from. A nurse also has a duty to

  establish, maintain, and improve health care environments and conditions of employment so that high quality

  health care can be provided. She should work to improve health

  care locally, nationally, and internationally, and she should also work

  through her professional associations to influence social policy

  concerning health care. Finally, she has a duty to maintain her own

  competence and to grow personally and professionally.

What information do you have to indicate this was not upheld?

Types of Ethical Issues

• Registered nurses responding to

  a 2006 survey reported 21 different ethical issues they faced while caring

  for their patients. These issues included the use of restraints, pain

  management, determining best interest of the patient, organ

  donation, life-sustaining treatment and end of life care, reporting

  errors, dealing with impaired nurses, conflicts of interest, justice for

  people with disabilities, the ethics of research and the use of

  information technology and confidentiality.

What information do you have to indicate that any of these were an issue in this particular case?

Nurse Dissatisfaction

• In a study investigating the

  relationship between ethics and the intent of nurses and social workers to

  leave their profession, researcher Connie Ulrich, Ph.D., RN discovered

  that 25 percent of practicing nurses and social workers wanted to leave

  the field. More than 52 percent of those who responded said they were

  frustrated with the ethical issues they faced. Hospital workers reported

  more ethical stress than caregivers

  who worked in other settings. Nearly 40 percent of hospital workers

  reported they had no organizational resources to help them with their

  ethical concerns, while another 25 percent said they had never received

  any ethical training.

How does this play into this particular case?

Do you know what kind of nurse the 911 caller was? As was mentioned previously in this thread lots of segments of the nursing profession call themselves "nurses". Just because someone identifies him-/her-self as a nurse doesn't mean he or she is a nurse. Do you know what the admission policy for the facility was? Do you know what agreements and understandings needed to be made prior to moving in? For both the patient AND the patient's family?

There is always more to the story. Sensationalistic journalism isn't interested in news. It's interested in pissing people off by playing heartstrings with half baked, uninformed or completely wrong stories. I'm not sure what the motivation is with this story (as I'm sure that's a story by itself). But we don't have anywhere near the complete story of this particular event.

[triemal04]

There is always more to the story. Sensationalistic journalism isn't interested in news. It's interested in pissing people off by playing heartstrings with half baked, uninformed or completely wrong stories. I'm not sure what the motivation is with this story (as I'm sure that's a story by itself). But we don't have anywhere near the complete story of this particular event.

I'm going to wait, hold my reply and hope that P-instructor comes back to explain his previous post, because, as it sits now, it has no bearing on this situation.

Actually, that probably is the motivation. That and keeping the ratings up by always having the most shocking stories, which is what people now tend to think of when they think of "the news."

Best part is that by only reporting a select amount of info, you never have to admit to being wrong if it becomes clear you were full of shit.

[P_Instructor]

Constipated as I am, I do want to say I agree with both of you that there is much more information that needs to be discovered here. I do not disagree with the 'sensationalism' of the media as you portray.

The only aspect I am trying to bring out is that as medical professionals, we are to be the patient advocate. I do not disagee with what you both are stating, and would like to know more information. Either I stay constipated or have a glorious bout of diarreha.

[ERDoc]

Constipated as I am, I do want to say I agree with both of you that there is much more information that needs to be discovered here. I do not disagree with the 'sensationalism' of the media as you portray.

The only aspect I am trying to bring out is that as medical professionals, we are to be the patient advocate. I do not disagee with what you both are stating, and would like to know more information. Either I stay constipated or have a glorious bout of diarreha.

So let's say that this woman did sign a form stating that no CPR was going to be performed. How is doing CPR acting as a pt advocate? If the pt signed such a form, she obviously does not want CPR so by performing CPR you are going against the pt's wishes and are therefore NOT acting as a pt advocate. The funny thing about medicine is that being a pt advocate doesn't mean being a hero.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Per california law this type of facility was under no obligation to provide any level of medical care if I heard the story right. They dont even have to help you take an aspirin. This facility is an assisted living facility which helps with activities of daily living and emergency care is not in the purveyance of their care regimen.

And pinstructor if your family member acknowledged that no cpr would be given when you became a resident then NO you would not own the franchise.

And let us not lose sight of the fact that the family does not seem to have an issue with this...........yet. Since the mrdia got a hold of this story there might be dollar signs popping up on the horizon.