EMS Lobbies To Take Over Fire Department

[crotchitymedic1986]

Come on guys, time to pay them back. Everyone go to your politicians and explain to them how much cheaper their Fire Department could be run, if it were run by the EMS Department. Show them that only 20% of their call volume is fire calls, and that about 12 of every 24 hours paid to the firemonkeys is for them to sit on the couch, scratch their balls, and fart on each other.

[aussiephil]

Crotchity,

have you been reading my posts again?

I like the idea!!!!

[emtannie]

Actually, crotchity, the idea has great merit...

The infrastructure for most fire departments is already in place - buildings, equipment, vehicles... so those kinds of expenditures could be written into the capital purchase replacement programs already in place for EMS services. Staffing wouldn't have to be increased a great deal, as those EMS staff and firefighters who are willing to crosstrain could work both fire and EMS. There would potentially be cost savings, as departments would not need as many full time firefighters on duty at any given time. Potentially, all "full-time" firefighters could be transitioned into part-time, or casual positions, which would be a huge cost savings in benefits and vacation time.

And, given the call volumes for fire calls, the firefighters could be put to good use while they are at the station, ensuring that the station and all the ambulances are clean and shiny, meals are made, equipment and supplies inventories are kept stocked, and handling small administrative duties, like filing EMS reports and photocopying. This would free up EMS staff to do more patient care. And, given that now EMS staff would be able to respond to more calls, as the tedious station duties are now handled by firefighters, billing and income would increase, which would make the politicians happy. Allowing EMS staff to do what they are educated to do, rather than all the extraneous duties, would improve EMS staff morale, and lessen staffing turnover...

Hmmmmmmmm....

[joesph]

sorry crotch they want the fires to go out not die of boredom

[46Young]

Come on guys, time to pay them back. Everyone go to your politicians and explain to them how much cheaper their Fire Department could be run, if it were run by the EMS Department. Show them that only 20% of their call volume is fire calls, and that about 12 of every 24 hours paid to the firemonkeys is for them to sit on the couch, scratch their balls, and fart on each other.

Don't be such an amateur. You need to draft some form letters that everyone can use to mail/email to their local and state politicians. And while you're at it, provide links to these state govt's, and ask others to provide contact info for their local govt's as well.

One major consideration is that most politicians' main objective is getting re-elected. How do you think all these entitlement programs stay in effect? That's where the votes are. Numbers game. Anyway, you'll need money to effectively lobby, so you'll need to collect donations. You'll also need to assist in these legislators' PR campaigns for re-election. Photo ops, PSA's, charities with said politicians, billboards with your organization endorsing them for the upcoming election. You'll need organization for this to have any chance of working, of course. By the look of things, you have your work cut out of you. This is the best the profession has to offer at the moment, the NAEMT:

http://www.emtcity.c...nefits-jemscom/

Remember this thread? I'm sure that many don't. It received quite the underwhelming response, and nearly half of them were mine. Since many single role providers are outraged, frustrated, and hopping mad at the fire service and the IAFF, I would think that the thread would have at least sparked some sort of discussion, perhaps about how to organize and lobby effectively. Guess not. Most would rather bemoan the actions of the fire service towards EMS rather than take any active role in opposition. Everyone jumping on a fire based EMS thread, giving each other high fives, boosting their rep points to 300 on an anonymous internet forum may be therapeutic for venting purposes, but it changes nothing.

Why does a fire bashing thread (right or wrong) get upwards of 30, 40, 50 or more posts and a very (suprisingly) infrequent thread speaking of EMS organization and advocating a better deal for the profession gets a passing glance at best?

I've said it time and time again, the EMS profession will remain transient so long as benefits, wages, working conditions, call volume, retirement and such remain undesireable. The idea of raising educational standards is a good one, but requires organization. The majority of employers won't compensate degreed medics more generously when tech grads are still available. Hard to organize when the majority of the workforce gets in, then gets out when the have the opportunity after being used and abused. For every happy, gainfully employed EMT or medic, there are probably five to ten that are miserable, or will soon be after a few years. Unions, strictly EMS unions, are the only short term remedy to blunt the epidemic of attrition in this industry. If you say that unions are evil, that they do nothing, that you would rather keep the dues to yourself, then I don't know what to tell you. Many are so ignorant that they don't understand that unions in right to work states are strictly voluntary, and enrollment isn't mandatory. We get what we want by doing the above things, using a portion of dues to effectively lobby, donate campaign contributions, and assist the politicians that serve our needs by providing positive PR in their election/reelection campaigns. The photo ops where we bring our spouses and young children are particularly effective. Check out this video from a session of the County Board of Supervisors. Our President was responding to the take home car "scandal" by admin, and more importantly, to squash the County Executive's proposal of 89 uniformed RIF's. We were successful. Notice the members of the Local 2068 wearing yellow t-shirts (I mentioned this on another thread when someone joked that the opposing group took red first), and also the tactic of bringing our spouses and young children to the session. We enter at 43 seconds into the video.

http://www.myfoxdc.c...n_prompts_audit

We saved all 89 jobs, and we'll be able to save the 30 proposed for RIF this year as well. That's what I'm talking about!

Actually, crotchity, the idea has great merit...

The infrastructure for most fire departments is already in place - buildings, equipment, vehicles... so those kinds of expenditures could be written into the capital purchase replacement programs already in place for EMS services. Staffing wouldn't have to be increased a great deal, as those EMS staff and firefighters who are willing to crosstrain could work both fire and EMS. There would potentially be cost savings, as departments would not need as many full time firefighters on duty at any given time. Potentially, all "full-time" firefighters could be transitioned into part-time, or casual positions, which would be a huge cost savings in benefits and vacation time.

And, given the call volumes for fire calls, the firefighters could be put to good use while they are at the station, ensuring that the station and all the ambulances are clean and shiny, meals are made, equipment and supplies inventories are kept stocked, and handling small administrative duties, like filing EMS reports and photocopying. This would free up EMS staff to do more patient care. And, given that now EMS staff would be able to respond to more calls, as the tedious station duties are now handled by firefighters, billing and income would increase, which would make the politicians happy. Allowing EMS staff to do what they are educated to do, rather than all the extraneous duties, would improve EMS staff morale, and lessen staffing turnover...

Hmmmmmmmm....

What politicians care most about is getting re-elected. See my above post. I could never imagine those in the fire service ever choosing to allow things to change in the manner that you describe.

Edited February 27, 2010 by 46Young

[aussiephil]

Don't be such an amateur. You need to draft some form letters that everyone can use to mail/email to their local and state politicians. And while you're at it, provide links to these state govt's, and ask others to provide contact info for their local govt's as well.

One major consideration is that most politicians' main objective is getting re-elected. How do you think all these entitlement programs stay in effect? That's where the votes are. Numbers game. Anyway, you'll need money to effectively lobby, so you'll need to collect donations. You'll also need to assist in these legislators' PR campaigns for re-election. Photo ops, PSA's, charities with said politicians, billboards with your organization endorsing them for the upcoming election. You'll need organization for this to have any chance of working, of course. By the look of things, you have your work cut out of you. This is the best the profession has to offer at the moment, the NAEMT:

http://www.emtcity.c...nefits-jemscom/

Remember this thread? I'm sure that many don't. It received quite the underwhelming response, and nearly half of them were mine. Since many single role providers are outraged, frustrated, and hopping mad at the fire service and the IAFF, I would think that the thread would have at least sparked some sort of discussion, perhaps about how to organize and lobby effectively. Guess not. Most would rather bemoan the actions of the fire service towards EMS rather than take any active role in opposition. Everyone jumping on a fire based EMS thread, giving each other high fives, boosting their rep points to 300 on an anonymous internet forum may be therapeutic for venting purposes, but it changes nothing.

Why does a fire bashing thread (right or wrong) get upwards of 30, 40, 50 or more posts and a very (suprisingly) infrequent thread speaking of EMS organization and advocating a better deal for the profession gets a passing glance at best?

I've said it time and time again, the EMS profession will remain transient so long as benefits, wages, working conditions, call volume, retirement and such remain undesireable. The idea of raising educational standards is a good one, but requires organization. The majority of employers won't compensate degreed medics more generously when tech grads are still available. Hard to organize when the majority of the workforce gets in, then gets out when the have the opportunity after being used and abused. For every happy, gainfully employed EMT or medic, there are probably five to ten that are miserable, or will soon be after a few years. Unions, strictly EMS unions, are the only short term remedy to blunt the epidemic of attrition in this industry. If you say that unions are evil, that they do nothing, that you would rather keep the dues to yourself, then I don't know what to tell you. Many are so ignorant that they don't understand that unions in right to work states are strictly voluntary, and enrollment isn't mandatory. We get what we want by doing the above things, using a portion of dues to effectively lobby, donate campaign contributions, and assist the politicians that serve our needs by providing positive PR in their election/reelection campaigns. The photo ops where we bring our spouses and young children are particularly effective. Check out this video from a session of the County Board of Supervisors. Our President was responding to the take home car "scandal" by admin, and more importantly, to squash the County Executive's proposal of 89 uniformed RIF's. We were successful. Notice the members of the Local 2068 wearing yellow t-shirts (I mentioned this on another thread when someone joked that the opposing group took red first), and also the tactic of bringing our spouses and young children to the session. We enter at 43 seconds into the video.

http://www.myfoxdc.c...n_prompts_audit

We saved all 89 jobs, and we'll be able to save the 30 proposed for RIF this year as well. That's what I'm talking about!

What politicians care most about is getting re-elected. See my above post. I could never imagine those in the fire service ever choosing to allow things to change in the manner that you describe.

You are a broken record. Nothing more, nothing less. I can gaurentee you that if we wanted to, we could run a media campaign that woiuld make ALL people understand the relationship between Fire & EMS & make them vote for whoever seperates them.

Get your head out of your ass.

[brentoli]

You are a broken record. Nothing more, nothing less. I can gaurentee you that if we wanted to, we could run a media campaign that woiuld make ALL people understand the relationship between Fire & EMS & make them vote for whoever seperates them.

Get your head out of your ass.

Phil....

I am not taking any sides in the overall debate, but he is right. In American politics, the only thing that matters is the money. If you aren't lining someones pocketbook, you won't get near the same treatment as someone who does.

I don't know the numbers, but reading Mikes statement in the other thread, I wouldn't be surprised if IAFF out spent NAEMT 3:1 in lobbying. Probably even more then that.

[46Young]

You are a broken record. Nothing more, nothing less. I can gaurentee you that if we wanted to, we could run a media campaign that woiuld make ALL people understand the relationship between Fire & EMS & make them vote for whoever seperates them.

Get your head out of your ass.

So then do it already. This has been going on for longer than I've been alive, and I'll be 34 soon.

Get my head out of my ass. Yeah, I guess I should go on a campaign against the IAFF and put myself out of a job. I like being able to afford a home in a desireable area. I like being able to support my family without living paycheck to paycheck. I like being able to take family vacations without stressing over if we can afford it. I like being able to get my car fixed and not even care that it cost me over $500 (today). I like having all this working 10-11 days a month. I haven't found any EMS depts on the east coast that would give me that. I tried Charleston County EMS and was utterly disappointed. I would have been happy with Lee County EMS, but they didn't get to me fast enough. The only other place I'd consider would be Wake County EMS, and their salary range is only 32,600 to 49,900. I'm sure it's a great place to work, and I would suggest it as an option for single role medics that are unhappy at their present employer. That salary range is not generous enough for me, seeing that I'm making 20-30 grand over what my hiring range would have been. I'm doing the same job I was before whe I'm on the ambulance. I've also found that I enjoy the fire side as well. In addition, with the other half of my time that I'm on an engine, we don't have to txp the drunk or toe pain at 0300, and we can clear calls in 15-20 mins and go back to the station. It's nice. I can have my fill of EMS transport, and also get that break when riding the engine. It makes for a long, satisfying career with a much less of a chance to burn out. Pt keeps one fresh. The career advancement/promotional opportunities and ensuing compensation are sick. I wasn't getting that elsewhere, either.

You see, I already got my head out of my ass and went to a place where I have great job satisfaction, and a great salary to boot. No place else was offering that. We'll do what needs to be done to protect our interests.

[Richard B the EMT]

Just wake me up when the EMS vs FD wars are over...

[JPINFV]

Thank God medicine doesn't rely on unions.