DwayneEMTP Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 A recent PCR came back to me from QA/QI. Each of our PCRs is reviewed by someone before being saved as a permanent document. In my PCR subjective I used the sentence, "Upon returning to the room staff discovered that the pt had lay down on the couch and 'was twitching." I believe that my sentence is grammatically correct, as they do, but neither of us is able to justify our argument. Anyone here that can say who's right and why? Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ..."Upon returning to the room staff discovered that the pt had lay down on the couch and 'was twitching.... Dwayne Maybe laid down, versus lay. But it is a bit nick picky, your observation is clearly made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Young Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 If it were me, I would always put things into terms such as "Staff advises the pt was found on the couch and observed to be twitching." I'll always paraphrase pt/staff/bystander accounts using that language unless a direct quote is necessary. Staff "advises" vs staff "said" makes a world of difference, especially in court. Don't quote verbatim unless absolutely necessary to validate treatment. What, exactly, is QA/QI's official problem with your statement? It doesn't seem like much of a big deal to me. Was there a pt care error with this call or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Maybe laid down, versus lay. But it is a bit nick picky, your observation is clearly made. Nod, but nit picky is their job, and I'm truly grateful that it is. I don't get busted much, but when I do it's always valid, and makes me write better reports. If Laid is more appropriate, how come? (I'm sorry I keep missing you girl! Don't give up!!) Thanks for the feedback! Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Nod, but nit picky is their job, and I'm truly grateful that it is. I don't get busted much, but when I do it's always valid, and makes me write better reports. If Laid is more appropriate, how come? (I'm sorry I keep missing you girl! Don't give up!!) Thanks for the feedback! Dwayne Just the verb tense. Am I missing something here, Dwayne? I feel there is some other issue?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosgrojo Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) A recent PCR came back to me from QA/QI. Each of our PCRs is reviewed by someone before being saved as a permanent document. In my PCR subjective I used the sentence, "Upon returning to the room staff discovered that the pt had lay down on the couch and 'was twitching." I believe that my sentence is grammatically correct, as they do, but neither of us is able to justify our argument. Anyone here that can say who's right and why? Dwayne The correct word usage should have been either "laid," as chaser said, or "lied." While "lied" doesn't sound right when you read it or speak it... it is not grammatically incorrect. You should not have used "lay" because that word is usually followed by a noun. The other small issue is that you should have only quoted the word "twitching," and left "was" out of the quotations, unless you are quoting what the staff said and you didn't witness the twitching yourself... in which case you should have also added ""staff states patient "was twitching."" If you saw the "twitching" and were making a generalized assessment because a better term was not available for what you saw, then you should have left "was" out of the "'s. Again, like chaser stated, these are particularly small nits we are picking. Other than my continued misuse of ellipse's, I believe that sentence is grammatically correct. *edited for grammatical mistake... I meant "lied" not "lie"...I must go flog myself now.* Edited November 2, 2009 by cosgrojo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fignewt345 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/laid Which is correct: 'a person was laid on the table' or 'a person was lain on the table'? People are often perplexed about this group of words. The important thing to remember is that there are two quite separate verbs involved. Lay is the present tense of a verb whose basic meaning is 'place something in a more or less horizontal position', with the past tense and participle laid. Lay is also the past tense of the verb lie; while lain is the past participle. So the proper use is: Lay Please lay it on the floor (present tense) She laid the book on the desk (past tense) They had laid it on the floor (past participle) Lie Go and lie down (present tense) She went and lay down (past tense) The body had lain in the field for some time (past participle) and in the example it must be was laid on the table. "Laid" is not the correct use. Since the action of the patient you are describing has already been completed, you can use the past participle. (You are not describing the past in the present tense.) In your case I believe lain would be correct. Maybe to avoid confusion you can remove "down," since to lie on the couch is to lie down on the couch by definition. IE "Upon returning to the room staff discovered that the patient had lain on the couch and was twitching." It sounds strange and foreign. A lot of proper English does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbare Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Lay is typically defined as a present tense verb. Additionally, there is a difference between lay and lie. Lay referes to the subject actually putting something down, where lie is more of a "to be" type of verb where the subject is the one doing the action. For example: I lay the computer down. For example: I will lie down for a nap. With that, the past tense for lay is laid and the past tense for lie is lay. What a confusing conundrum, hu? So, Dwayne, you are in fact correct on this one. Don't let it go to your head. Take care, chbare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I hate to muddy the waters further, but I would have used "lain" in that context. I believe "lie" is also correct as a past participle, though. Laid would be least correct of the choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tniuqs Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Nod, but nit picky is their job, and I'm truly grateful that it is. I don't get busted much, but when I do it's always valid, and makes me write better reports. If Laid is more appropriate, how come? (I'm sorry I keep missing you girl! Don't give up!!) Thanks for the feedback! Dwayne Yikes if they are that nit picky they need to get Laid .... ok someone had to say it before dust did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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