Florida Medical Director Pulls Certifications of 25 Paramedics

[Dan Bowman]

As usual the few bring down the many... and the the public just doesn't have the base knowledge to understand the situation. Being a private EMS guy with no Fire experience at all, I can not help you with your request, but I support you and Dr. Tober's efforts in keeping up and raising the standards for Fire/EMS in Florida. If more would take these progressive stances, we may some day hold some respect in the hearts and minds of the public that knows us not.

Thank you for your post, and good luck! I hope that the members of the City with experience in these fields will be able to help you. But don't ask the Admin... he doesn't like fire either... (it's scary!)

THank you for the support!

For the record, I am an EMT working in a dual level response matrix, now operated by the FDNY. On specific call types, a "Certified First Responder-Defibrillator" engine goes, too.

FDNY might have both outside agency trained and practicing EMTs and Paramedics working for them as Fire Fighters, but will only utilize them as CFR-D/Fire Fighters. I also know several EMTs and Paramedics, from outside agencies (volunteer fire departments, mostly from Nassau and Suffolk county, NY) cross trained as Fire Fighters, but the FDNY EMS Command uses them exclusively on the ambulances.

EMS folks are mission specific, Fire Fighters fight fires, "Jaws" open cars, and do the "FR-D" as their mission.

Fire Fighters get a bit more money if they do an "EMS Run". There is nothing comparable for the EMSers.

Just after the merger, when the Fire Fighters discovered they wouldn't be assigned EMS Runs if they had anyone on the crew let their CFR-D cards lapse, so they became compliant.

While what is now the FDNY EMS Command started out as a hospital based service (New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation), we are now fire service based. We wanted to split from HHC, and become a 3rd Service, but it didn't happen that way.

So, I state FDNY EMS Command personnel, and FDNY Fire Fighters, do their respective jobs, and do them well!

I believe our medical control, and our medical director, support Dr Tober, even if I cannot document this.

Thanks for the information. It is very useful.

[under-dreaming]

Predictable sensation-seeking journalists amplify and distort an otherwise reasonable and understandable situation. I hope (in this case) that the other common predictable action follows: all of the people who are making judgments that are above their level of competence find another story to sensationalize, and move on. Drama moves people.

Every EMS professional in this forum, fire or not, agrees that these paramedics were treated exactly the way they should have been... I think we would know. It's good to see that this county has an active MD, and I wish him the best of luck in dealing with the backlash.

[Kiwiology]

Quit being the unions bitch; demand the firefighters get a proper paramedic education and are exposed to appropriate numbers of patients to ensure skill maintenance

Edited August 28, 2009 by kiwimedic

[VentMedic]

Predictable sensation-seeking journalists amplify and distort an otherwise reasonable and understandable situation. I hope (in this case) that the other common predictable action follows: all of the people who are making judgments that are above their level of competence find another story to sensationalize, and move on. Drama moves people.

Actually they are presenting the toned down version in the newspaper. I have had the displeasure of attending a couple of meetings in that area last Fall and earlier this year because I have an interest in the Golden Gate situation. I can tell you that not all what was said in those meetings was printable. I can also tell you the comments made by members of the FDs towards those who openly supported Dr. Tober was not printable.

Also, if you dig up some of the earlier articles and read the public comments, you will find that some of the fools writing at the end of this article even blasted the taxpayer and regular citizen who dared to comment or ask questions. This has truly been a bad presentation of professionalism on the part of a few.

Again those who do not understand what responsibility comes when working as a Paramedic or who believe their medical director is their fire chief need to give back that extra pay they receive as a Paramedic. Some may even be defying medical authority in hopes of not running medical calls. The departments need to make it clear that just having a Paramedic patch to get hired is not enough. One must be able to function as one. There are many others holding a Paramedic patch while working at Burger King just waiting to get hired on at one of these FDs for the benefits.

Edited August 28, 2009 by VentMedic

[Kiwiology]

Actually they are presenting the toned down version in the newspaper. I have had the displeasure of attending a couple of meetings in that area last Fall and earlier this year because I have an interest in the Golden Gate situation. I can tell you that not all what was said in those meetings was printable. I can also tell you the comments made by members of the FDs towards those who openly supported Dr. Tober was not printable.

Also, if you dig up some of the earlier articles and read the public comments, you will find that some of the fools writing at the end of this article even blasted the taxpayer and regular citizen who dared to comment or ask questions. This has truly been a bad presentation of professionalism on the part of a few.

I think of myself as a logical person so logically, is there some form of brainwashing that I am unaware of in which responder agencies and the communities at large undertake to become capable of believing that this system is capable of providing acceptable patient care?

Now I know it would be unfair to stereotype all Firefighter/Paramedic's as one-trick cookbook-card following textbook-only whiz-bang providers that whipped down to the local medic mill that barely meets state requirements to either a) get or b ) keep thier job or c) get a higher retirement earn. That said ... some of the things I've seen around the web scare me!

.... hence why I was doubled up on the floor at my bro's house in Colorado refusing to let the Fire Department paramedics near me!

Edited August 28, 2009 by kiwimedic

[under-dreaming]

Again those who do not understand what responsibility comes when working as a Paramedic or who believe their medical director is their fire chief need to give back that extra pay they receive as a Paramedic. Some may even be defying medical authority in hopes of not running medical calls. The departments need to make it clear that just having a Paramedic patch to get hired is not enough. One must be able to function as one. There are many others holding a Paramedic patch while working at Burger King just waiting to get hired on at one of these FDs for the benefits.

It's always about money for some people.

Even in my department, I feel as though sometimes it's as if some of the EMTs here are doing it because they have to for the job.

is there some form of brainwashing that I am unaware of in which responder agencies and the communities at large undertake to become capable of believing that this system is capable of providing acceptable patient care?

It's called American television!!!

[HERBIE1]

Hello, My name is Dan Bowman and I'm the Deputy Chief at Collier County EMS. I work hand-in-hand with Dr. Tober in an effort to assure the highest level of pre-hospital care within our community. I'd like to thank all of you for your support and candor, and therefore ask for the membership's help.

Collier County EMS, along with Dr. Tober would first like to recognize that the problem that exists in our County is not a "firefighter" issue. As a matter of fact, I'm a full supporter of ALS within the fire service. All I and the OMD ask is there be adequate training and clinical exposure corresponding to the level of care expected of everyone operating on any emergency scene. In other words, keep-up with your training, work on an ambulance "occasionally" in order to get more in-depth exposure to patients and be accountable for yourself, your department and the community. While our standards may seem simple and obvious to most, some people are struggling. You're witnessing this play-out in our local media. What you don't see are the department's whose firefighter/paramedics are up to the task and working very hard and competently.

While we continue to move forward in our efforts, I would like to hear from any of you whose departments have been through similar circumstances. More specifically, I understood one of the posts indicated that within their department, they ride around 50% between transport and non-transport apparatus. I'd like more details similar to operations/standards such as this. Any other suggestions will be very appreciated.

We are very proud of our paramedics and EMTS within all of Collier County. We've won numerous State and National awards, have a phenomenal save-rate and recently Dr. Tober was awarded the Florida State Medical Director of the Year. We're confident with our mission and anticipate that eventually, those administrations who seem to be lagging behind will eventually catch up with the standard we've set.

Feel free to contact me via PM. You're support is appreciated.

Thanks.

Dan

Mr. Bowman-

As you can see, there are many types of EMS systems represented here, with various medical control systems. I'd be more than happy to discuss my big city fire-based system and the problems we have with you but I won't bore the City here with all the details. Send me an email if interested.

twems@yahoo.com

[Richard B the EMT]

Predictable sensation-seeking journalists amplify and distort an otherwise reasonable and understandable situation.

Supporting the above statement:

Just about a year prior to the EMS/FDNY merger (1996), my union, local 2507, went to a reporter with WABC-TV7 New York, and told him,

If the mayor, and the head of Health and Hospitals Corporation would give us the money, these are the changes we want to do, to improve our service to the people of the city of New York

The reporter turned it around, and made it into an attack on us, saying

Why doesn't the EMS implement the following changes, to improve their service to the people of the city of New York?

Understandably, the union has instructed it's members to not cooperate with any reporters from WABC-TV7, but due to the time elapsed, I don't know if that is still in effect.

[spenac]

Guess they will not post any comment from someone with any valid points. Still not showing up. But they sure do let the anti Tober crowd post. The fire union probably said they would buy a bunch of ads.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Guess they will not post any comment from someone with any valid points. Still not showing up. But they sure do let the anti Tober crowd post. The fire union probably said they would buy a bunch of ads.

I tried to set up a account yet I never got the email on how to.

What I don't understand is this

You have requirements to perform your job. If you don't do those requirements then you lose your job or are disciplined.

These medics had ample opportunity to complete the requirements which by golly were so difficult to do and complete.

I'll bet that these firemedics never missed a single one of their recert or requirements for being a fire fighter.

Unfortunately Dr. Tober will be out soon. There's just too much opposition against him. The fire union and fire department holds too much power in any city.

Screw the patient care, if it makes the fire department look bad then Heaven have mercy.

We all know what needed to be done but the fire department has a pretty good PR machine. They can spin this to the detriment of the medical director and to the benefit of the fire department.