Lone Star Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Those that know me, know that I'm back in school to get relicensed. I'm having a bit of a 'problem' with some information presented in a test that is associated with the book we're using for the EMT-B portion of the course. Currently, we're using Brady's "Emergency Care: 11th Edition" Part of my course materials is a 'subscription' to an online service called "Course Compass". This is where the instructor is able to post study material, testing, etc. Recently, my instructor posted a 60 question test ( multiple answers). One of the questions on the test dealt with directional terminology. The book describes the body as being broken down into its simplest parts: the torso and the extremities. It goes further to describe the torso as the thorax and abdomen. Further, it states that the terms 'proximal' and 'distal' are used to describe locations on the extremities. Since the head is not included in the description of the torso, it's a logical conclusion that the head is considered an 'extremity' based on the above definition. 'Proximal' is defined as 'closer to the torso', and 'distal' is defined as 'further away from the torso'. With all that being said and accepted by the books definitions, the following statement SHOULD be a valid statement: The mouth is proximal to the nose. Unfortunately, when I picked that statement to be 'true', the computer marked it as a wrong answer.... Is there something wrong with My logic, or is this an example of 'bad information'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 The head is its own part and not an extremity. The best way to describe things on the head is to use superior/inferior and medial/lateral. You can use proximal/distal and superior/inferior to describe things on the extremities. It is a real nit-picking type question that I wouldn't be too upset about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedoc5 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) I just helped my niece with this exact thing for her LPN classes. I was about to bang my head on the table, then suddenly she started to get it straightened out. One post I was going to make was the North is up there, South is down there, East is over there, and West is across there. Edited April 19, 2009 by firedoc5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC EMT Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Arms & legs are extremities. The head is not. Should have been "the mouth is inferior to the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanHarris Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Your head is superior to your feet, that's why we walk all over the poor bastards. The digits are your body's minions but need order from middle management (the spinal nerves). Middle management needs to be in close proximity (proximal, get it? ) to the boss to suck up. Unfortunately my little story breaks down for the rest, but I found these help. Medial = middle. Lateral = if I'm making a lateral pass in footbal or rugby it's going away from the safe place in tight that I was carrying it. Posterior = I'm going to kick your ass. But I don't want to curse. And for bonus, how I discribe decorticate and decerebrate posturing to people who keep mixing them up. Decorticare = the t-rex. (Don't get it? Move your arms into decorticate position and walk around roaring. It'll make sense) Decerebrate = the penguin. (Same problem? Go waddle around while decerebrate posturing.) Which one's 2 and which is 3 for GCS? Simple, the t-rex eats the penguin. Cheers, - Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyM83 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 The way I describe decorticate and decerebrate. Decorticate: You move your arms to your "core". If getting painful stimuli, this at least is still protective (though primitive), so it gets a higher GCS score, 3. Decerebrate: You move your arms outward, as if "celebrating" (think of an exaggerated image of someone celebrating at a party). If getting painful stimuli, and you put your hands outwards, not protecting your torso at all, that means you're seriously screwed up, so you get lower GCS of 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siffiliss Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Those that know me, know that I'm back in school to get relicensed. I'm having a bit of a 'problem' with some information presented in a test that is associated with the book we're using for the EMT-B portion of the course. Currently, we're using Brady's "Emergency Care: 11th Edition" Part of my course materials is a 'subscription' to an online service called "Course Compass". This is where the instructor is able to post study material, testing, etc. Recently, my instructor posted a 60 question test ( multiple answers). One of the questions on the test dealt with directional terminology. The book describes the body as being broken down into its simplest parts: the torso and the extremities. It goes further to describe the torso as the thorax and abdomen. Further, it states that the terms 'proximal' and 'distal' are used to describe locations on the extremities. Since the head is not included in the description of the torso, it's a logical conclusion that the head is considered an 'extremity' based on the above definition. 'Proximal' is defined as 'closer to the torso', and 'distal' is defined as 'further away from the torso'. With all that being said and accepted by the books definitions, the following statement SHOULD be a valid statement: The mouth is proximal to the nose. Unfortunately, when I picked that statement to be 'true', the computer marked it as a wrong answer.... Is there something wrong with My logic, or is this an example of 'bad information'? Proximal = Toward the attached end of a limb or the origin of a structure. Distal = Away from the attached end of a limb or the origin of a structure. Inferior = Pertaining to a position near the tail end of the long axis of the body. Superior = Refers to the head or upper body regions. (eg.) The navel is inferior to the chin. The head is superior to the abdomen. The elbow is proximal to the wrist. The knee is distal to the thigh. Does this help a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) It's not that I'm having a problem remembering what the terms mean, but rather having a problem with the 'reference points'. Superior = closer to the head Inferior = farther away from the head To say that the nose is closer to the head than the mouth is, is redundant. Both structures are PART OF THE HEAD, so how can one be 'closer to the head than the other? Brady's defines the head as: Cranium- the sides, top and back of the skull Face To say that the nose is superior (closer to the head) than the mouth is; is like saying that two people riding in the front seat of the same car, one person is closer to the interior than the other. Proximal - closer to the torso Distal - further away from the torso This would be a better reference because the nose is distal to the mouth (further away from the torso) I realize 'this is how its always been', but I guess this is another example of the new monkeys doing things 'the way they've always been done', for fear of being beaten by the other monkeys. They don't know WHY they're doing things this way, they just know that they don't want to be beaten by the other monkeys! Edited April 23, 2009 by Lone Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mperkel Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Those that know me, know that I'm back in school to get relicensed. I'm having a bit of a 'problem' with some information presented in a test that is associated with the book we're using for the EMT-B portion of the course. Currently, we're using Brady's "Emergency Care: 11th Edition" Part of my course materials is a 'subscription' to an online service called "Course Compass". This is where the instructor is able to post study material, testing, etc. Recently, my instructor posted a 60 question test ( multiple answers). One of the questions on the test dealt with directional terminology. The book describes the body as being broken down into its simplest parts: the torso and the extremities. It goes further to describe the torso as the thorax and abdomen. Further, it states that the terms 'proximal' and 'distal' are used to describe locations on the extremities. Since the head is not included in the description of the torso, it's a logical conclusion that the head is considered an 'extremity' based on the above definition. 'Proximal' is defined as 'closer to the torso', and 'distal' is defined as 'further away from the torso'. With all that being said and accepted by the books definitions, the following statement SHOULD be a valid statement: The mouth is proximal to the nose. Unfortunately, when I picked that statement to be 'true', the computer marked it as a wrong answer.... Is there something wrong with My logic, or is this an example of 'bad information'? The computer was right, it is false. The mouth is proximal to the nose, the nose is distal from the mouth. In your statement, that the head is an extremity (even though it's not), this would still hold true. The head is attached by the next which is connected to the main body, it just seems wrong, because you're used to looking at things the other way (ie: hand is distal to elbow...) In all correctness though, it is unfairly worded, it should be: The mouth is superior to the nose - false! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Don't think of superior/inferior being in reference to the head. It is much simpler than that. Superior means something is above something else and inferior means something is below something else. Therefore the mouth is inferior to the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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