Volunteer Cadet Idiocy in Iowa

[Dustdevil]

Traditionally, the biggest problem with cadet and Explorer programmes is not the kids. It is the adults that manage (and mismanage) them. Here's a prime example.

http://www.southwestiowanews.com/articles/...d7013378379.txt

Logan Fire Department cadet program is a win-win situation

By Mary Darling, Editor

Published: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:10 AM CDT

The Logan Fire Department cadet program is a win-win situation for the department and the students involved.

Initiated in 2001, the goal of the program, according to fire chief Craig Charbonneau, is to provide a learning experience for the cadets and to hopefully add to the department if the cadets stay in town after graduation.

“Each year we set a maximum of five kids. There’s been about 40 go through the program so far,” Charbonneau said.

This year’s cadets include seniors Casey Charbonneau, Brittnay Nordby, Josh Long and junior Brittany Loy. Charbonneau and Nordby started the program in 2007 and Loy and Long in 2008.

Students have to apply to be accepted into the program.

“We also contact the guidance counselor and principal. They need to be in good standing with their grades. Their family has to agree and each one is brought in for an interview with three to four members of the department. They are then voted on at the September meeting. If accepted, they are brought in and issued gear and pagers,” Charbonneau said.

The first few months is mainly used for observation.

“They can’t go into burning structures or anything dangerous. They are allowed to attend classes and training sessions,”

Charbonneau said. “All the cadets that have gone through the program have been real good, the hardest part is keeping them out of a fire. Once they complete Fire Fighter I training, we can use them like a regular firefighter.”

Besides helping the community, Casey Charbonneau, Nordby and Loy say their reasons for joining the program were to gain experience for their future careers. All three plan on going into the nursing field.

Charbonneau and Nordby’s fathers have both been with the department for many years.

“It’s cool being with him,” Charbonneau said of her dad Craig. “We get to see a lot of different stuff.”

Charbonneau, Nordby and Loy are all presently taking EMT classes, and Long, Fire Fighter I classes, paid for by the department.

“Our dads help us out a lot,” Nordby said.

The cadets all said everyone in the department are all good teachers.

“They are great role models,” Casey Charbonneau said.

According to Craig Charbonneau, EMT classes cost about $800 to $900 and Fire Fighter I about $300.

“By having kids go through the EMT training, it allows us to have more EMT’s in town during the day, when we can be short of medical personnel,” Craig Charbonneau said. “The unit can’t roll to the hospital without at least one EMT on board.”

The cadets can answer any calls they wish and they try to go to as many as they can, they said. Only one cadet can go on a rescue call at a time, so they rotate amongst themselves. They can all answer fire calls.

Casey Charbonneau and Nordby were along when the call went out for help for the tornado that hit the Boy Scout ranch at Little Sioux last June.

Charbonneau helped get the Scouts names and ages and their parents’ phone numbers and observed the triage area. Nordby helped her dad at the scene carrying backboards up to the site.

“It was weird. They were the ages of my brothers. It made you think what would you do if it was your family,” Casey Charbonneau said.

“We keep seeing stuff that brings back memories. It’s something you just can’t forget about,” Nordby said.

Long said the worst fire call he has been on so far was the one to the Modale Coop.

“I was on the hose line,” Long said.

According to Loy, she really enjoys the program.

“You grow a lot, nothing is ever the same,” Loy said.

Nordby said she feels proud to help.

“It makes you feel good when you hear the community talking about what we do.”

The girls said their desire to help people is what has driven their desire to go into nursing.

“You know you will make a difference in at least one person’s life,” Casey Charbonneau said.

Loy spent a lot of time in the hospital when she was younger.

“Ever since I was little, I knew that I wanted to care for people,” she said.

Nordby is interested in working as an emergency room nurse.

“I like taking care of people and helping out. In the ER it’s never the same. I like the adrenalin rush,” she said.

Once the cadets graduate, and if they stay around, they can be voted on as probationary members for the department, Craig Charbonneau said.

“They have no voting rights, and can’t drive any vehicles during that time, but after a year can be voted on as full members,” he said.

More and more communities are starting these programs including Mondamin and Woodbine, Craig Charbonneau said.

“Each year it seems like kids get more involved in clubs and sports, but our cadet program has stayed about the same number. We are still very happy with four or five a year, not to say we wouldn’t expand our limit,” Charbonneau said.

The cadets all said it is a great experience, but a serious one.

“If you are going to be on it just to goof around, no way,” Nordby said. “There are times for fun, and times to be serious.”

You can reach Mary Darling at 644-2705 or by e-mail at mary.darling@heraldobserver.com.

Nothing dangerous? Uhhh... is this fire chief the most clueless idiot in the fire service? Do you think there is even the slightest chance that he has ever taken a look at the Line Of Duty Death statistics? Nearly sixty percent of all firefighter deaths occur either during the response, during the transportation, on an EMS scene, or in training incidents, all of which these kids are -- by his own admission -- participating in. And they aren't doing "anything dangerous"?

I don't so much have a problem with willing teenagers being in harms way as I do with the complete cluelessness and dishonesty of this fire chief. Does he really not know and understand those statistics? And if not, then is he fully informing the kids and their parents of the true risks involved before they make the decision to join this programme? Either way, it would be wise for this community to explore if this guy really has the knowledge, intelligence, and integrity necessary to competently lead an emergency services agency. Obviously, you get what you pay for.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Dustdevil

[firedoc5]

Responding to any fire or EMS call has it's inherent dangers, that's for sure. I'm not sure if the Chief is leaving that out or just not thinking about it. And being on scene, even as just an observer or in a support capacity has dangers. It seems like they are leaving that info out.

I'm not against Explorer, or in this case "cadet" programs, especially if the kid is wanting to be a Firefighter or EMT. But according to this article three of them are wanting to go into the nursing field. Nothing wrong with that, but how would firefighting help with that? I can understand if they just went on EMS calls but they are doing the fire biz too. But hey, if they want to be nurses that volunteer to be firefighters, more power to 'em.

I noticed it didn't mention their ages, just their classes. I started EMS the summer between my Jr. and Sr. year in high school. I was 17, but would be 18 just a couple of weeks after the class was complete. So surely you would think these kids were at least 17. But I don't know of any dept. or dept. insurance that would let anyone under 18 be on scene and/ or under 21 to drive or do hands on firefighting, especially entering a burning structure. Some Dept's. may allow it, but I don't know of any personally.

I think this Chief is really down-playing how it really is. Is he trying to get more "cadets"? I don't like how they are using the word cadet. Cadet implies someone who has just started and is wanting to advance in Firefighting.

All in all, I agree with DD.

Edited March 26, 2009 by firedoc5

[JPINFV]

Dust, I'm surprised you missed this little gem.

“By having kids go through the EMT training, it allows us to have more EMT’s in town during the day, when we can be short of medical personnel,” Craig Charbonneau said. “The unit can’t roll to the hospital without at least one EMT on board.”

Oh, so instead of training the adults to handle emergency medical situations, they're just going to leave it to the kids?

[Just Plain Ruff]

I think he was so kerflunked with dismay that he only hit the highlights.

[Kiwiology]

“The unit can’t roll to the hospital without at least one EMT on board.”

So.... it can go to the patient with no EMTs on board but it has to have one onboard to go to the hospital eh; sounds a bit suspicious or perhaps its to keep from getting busted for using unqualified crews?

I hardly think "roll to the hospital" is an appropriate statement to be made to the media.

This guy doesn't sound very smart.

[FireMedic65]

Well, at least they didn't mention it being accelerated training

[Timmy]

I have no problem with 16 and 17 year old responding to a fire, as long as they have appropriate training, good supervision and they’ve proven themselves competent both theoretically and practically. I do disagree with kids riding on an ambulance. If I call for an emergency ambulance I’d like to think two paramedics with at least 3 years education and training are coming to my aid. Just maybe having an EMT and god knows who else driving to roll to the hospital doesn’t do it for me.

I do find the above article a little unprofessional and laid back, I’d like to think they’d promote there program as challenging and educational instead of everyone can come join in, ‘we’ve had 40 kids though so far’.

I know back in the day when I joined the fire service as a 16 year old my basic training included map reading, fire behavior, scene control, entrapment, suppression techniques, communications, basic fire investigation, pump operation, team work, first aid and so on. The initial course ran over about 50 hours practical and theoretical and we’d often head down to the station after school to practice, they gave us quiet a substantial amount of homework to complete and we have a lot of text books and training DVDs. Once you get your basic qualification you were allowed on some calls under strict supervision from a senior firefighter. After one your of active service, you’ve proven your self to be willing to learn and eager they’d let you go on rescue courses, hazmat training, specialist structure courses and so on.

[FireMedic65]

I also have no problem with "cadets" coming to the fire scene. They can be very helpful. As Timmy stated though, I would expect them to be trained, and supervised. I DO NOT agree with them riding on the engine though, or another first in vehicle. Leave those seats to people who know what is going on.

Here in PA, you have to be the age of 14 to join as a "junior" or "cadet". They are not allowed in the operations location of the fire scene. When they turn 16, they can throw ladders and help out with getting equipment, but by no means can they pick up tools and cut open a car or run into the building with the hose line. Must 18 to do that.

Also, you DO NOT have to have any prior training to fight a fire in PA. You can join, get a call and immediately jump on the engine and go fight the fire. Most departments put in their own rules though, where you must be trained to do these things.

Same goes with EMS. You can take the EMT-B program at the age of 15, but must be 16 upon completion and day of certification testing. This however, does not mean you can jump on the ambulance and treat patients A LONE. You must be accompanied by a "senior" EMT, someone the age of at least 18 to ride on the ambulance and give patient care in the role of an EMT. Again, some companies or departments may require the age of responders to be older, but never younger. This does not apply to "explorers" or ride-along. Those ages vary from place to place, but I think the minimum age is 14. However, I feel that still may be too young for someone to be on an ambulance in certain situations. You never know what will happen, even if you go out on a routine stubbed toe call, you may get dispatched to something much more severe and not have the chance to drop the observer off.

[emtkat]

I wish we could have a cadet program around here! They keep trying to get it to work but unfortunately you need clinical time in the ER before you can complete the local emt class. Non of the hospitals locally will let you do your clinical unless you are 18 and older.....

As far as having a student or less trained emt on the ambulance, my agency does it! But is has to be a crew of 3, 2 experienced emts and 1 student/noob. If they are a student, they can only do basic First Aid skills and the field report. If they are a noob, we start them off slow and easy, starting with vital signs, field report, Basic FA and then as time goes on and they prove themselves more they get to do more stuff! It is a great way to get knowledge and experiance..... Just dive in and learn all the hands on stuff you can (with close supervision of corse)!

[FireMedic65]

I wish we could have a cadet program around here! They keep trying to get it to work but unfortunately you need clinical time in the ER before you can complete the local emt class. Non of the hospitals locally will let you do your clinical unless you are 18 and older.....

As far as having a student or less trained emt on the ambulance, my agency does it! But is has to be a crew of 3, 2 experienced emts and 1 student/noob. If they are a student, they can only do basic First Aid skills and the field report. If they are a noob, we start them off slow and easy, starting with vital signs, field report, Basic FA and then as time goes on and they prove themselves more they get to do more stuff! It is a great way to get knowledge and experiance..... Just dive in and learn all the hands on stuff you can (with close supervision of corse)!

Very nice... you have to learn and start some where!