Example of why we do NOT speed in ambulances...

[JakeEMTP]

And exactly how many people can honestly say that they don't routinely drive 5 to 10 mph over the speed limit whether in the ambulance or personal vehicles.

Whether we exceed the posted limit or not is irrelevant. Hypothetically, if I was pulled over and given a ticket for doing 5 mph over the limit, then I deserve it. I was in violation of the law. When you (generic use of you) are involved in a collision and you were exceeding the speed limit, you are a contributing factor. When we are in a highly visible vehicle and are routinely exceeding the speed limit not only are we setting a bad example to the public, we are taking an unnecessary risk.

[FormerEMSLT297]

The posted speed limit was 55, he estimated he was doing appx 60, others say 65 to 70. Well within the normal 15 mph over. WTF

Charge the damn drunk, and quit friggin with the paramedic.

Anyone disagree, Deez Nutz

This falls under the DEEPEST POCKETS THEORY>>>IF Paramedic is Guilty, then the Company is liable for his actions .... Mo money mo money mo money.

[sirduke]

I still maintain that in this case, the DRUNK, was at fault, but unfortantly in our current "sue" happy world, it doesn't work that way.

In years past, if you were drunk, you were at fault, regardless. However in our "victim" society, this isn't the case. Poor old drunk probably had a bad childhood that caused him to have to drink to forget, etc. etc.

I concede the point about speeding, true, it is violating the law, but where does the real blame lie here?

Do I speed, yes, and if the rest of you will admit it, you have/do yourselves. Does it make it legal, no, but there it is.

And then lets look at this, what about the idiots who climbed into that car with the drunk bastard? What ever happened to personal responsibility?

[JPINFV]

Maybe it is the Long Islander in me, but I was confused about the issue with the speed of 70 in a 55. I guess the speed limit on Long Island is more of a recommendation than law (which probably explains why I didn't get my first speeding ticket until I moved to Michigan). Hell, on the Long Island Expressway, if you are doing 70 you had better be in the right lane with your blinkers on.

Sounds like California. Speed limit 65, traffic is doing 75-80, and the highway patrol is passing you.

[cynical_as_hell]

I think I'm missing something....what exactly did the drunk driver do that cause an ambulance to hit him?

[Eydawn]

How I drive in my personal vehicle and how I choose to drive in a company vehicle are two different things. In my personal vehicle, I'm already lamenting that I don't have a radar detector like my fiance does. In the ambulance? I'm driving the speed limit because it is safer, and I refuse to go 80 mph on a country highway when the posted speed is 60.

I think without seeing the crash pics, we have no way of knowing who was truly at fault, but I believe my company's policy states that I am responsible for any MVA's I'm involved in until proven otherwise... so you bet your sweet ass I'm avoiding accidents at all possible cost. Which includes moderating my speed and being extra careful when going through intersections or around corners.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[sirduke]

Still nobody has commented on the question I asked. What about personal responsibility on the part of the fools who chose to ride with a drunk driver?

We all have to take responsibility for our actions, be it driving too fast, or getting into a car with a drunk driver, or whatever. That is a major problem with our current society, they don't want to accept responsibility for their own screw-ups, but rather blame all of their problems on others.

Wake the Celibate Up America.

[akflightmedic]

Guess we can not truly comment on your statement util we know more facts.

While your point has some merit, if speed on the ambo's behalf was a contributor or cause of the MVC, them choosing to ride with a drunk is moot.

Are you saying we should not force the ambo driver to accept responsibility for his actions since the other party was drunk?

What if no ETOH was involved...is the ambo driver still free to avoid his responsibility?

[sirduke]

No, if it contributed to the accident, then yes, but I for one doubt that 5 mph or 10 mph is going to have that much difference in the outcome if someone pulls out 50 feet or so in front of you. And according to what I read in the article, and comments below it, not only did he do so, but apparently ran a red light to do it.

I'm sure I will be lambasted by accident reconstruction "experts" who will throw tons of figures about reaction times and impact velocities at me, but get real. A fuggin drunk pulls out in front of someone, and the fumduckers who were riding with him want to blame the person who hit him?

Anyway, just one man's opinion.

[Richard B the EMT]

I reference information I have posted in other strings, that my employer, the FDNY, has written policy that no department vehicle is authorized to go more than 10 miles above posted speed on any street, even if running L&S, and at no time are they allowed over 50 MPH, in NYC, where the maximum speed limit on any roadway, highway, turnpike, and parkway is only 50 MPH, anyway.

I am aware that some states heavily enforce speed laws, even one mile over the posted speed can and will earn a driver a ticket. Others are more lenient, you need to be at least 15 MPH before the troopers "notice" you.

DWI, which can be read as Driving While Intoxicated, or Impaired (allowing for ticketing drivers on some legitimate prescription medications, or even when too tired), is under attempt to be enforced by all the LEOs working traffic detail. There's more DWI drivers than LEOs, or so it seems at times.

Now, not knowing local or state laws for the location of involvement in the accident, what does their local state law(s) say about ambulances:

1) traveling faster than posted speeds,

2) traveling faster than posted speeds with a patient on board,

3) traveling faster than posted speeds with a patient on board without the L&S engaged,

4) traveling faster than posted speeds with a patient on board with the L&S engaged,

5) company or departmental "understood" policies on when and if L&S needs to be engaged with patients on board (probably specified by call type classifications) which are not written down,

6) company or departmental written policies on when and if L&S needs to be engaged with patients on board (specified by call type classifications in their operations guide books),

7) company or department "understood" versus "written" policies on when speed limits may be exceeded, and by how much if so allowed.

Company/Department policies, written or otherwise, may unknowingly be in opposition to area laws. I know of some private, non 9-1-1 ambulance providers, who run L&S to all calls (until one of their ambulances is involved in a crash with fatalities, which seems to happen every few years as new ambulance service providers surface). At JFK International Airport, which is under the coverage of the dual-state agency of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police, just running the lights on the roadways outside the terminals can earn one a ticket (inside the relative security area of runways, taxiways, and internal drives is different, they will escort you, and you must have the lights on, that taxiing aircraft will be aware of your presence seeing the lights. ).