Helo L-Z: Hot, or Not?

[Richard B the EMT]

When I had been involved with loading a patient onto an NYPD helicopter, it was on level ground, in a large parking lot, with access controlled by the LEOs, and specifically guided in to the craft by the pilot and my lieutenant, from the helo's right side. The rotors were turning, and all I could hear close by was the helo's motors.

I understand in other jurisdictions, or simply decided by the helo's operators, they won't allow anyone to approach the "chopper" until the blades stop turning. I understand this only adds 5 to 7 minutes of the aircraft being on the ground, with stopping and restarting the motors and rotors, even with a quick loading.

Motors on, the L-Z is "Hot", motors off, then it's not.

Let's compare local ways. Please post what area are you in, who supplies the helo, and do they primarily do "Hot" or "Cold" Landing Zone loadings/unloadings?

[Just Plain Ruff]

I absolutely hate hot lz's they are rife with danger and the dangers are deadly.

The NUMBER 1 question you have toask yourself is "Is my patient critical enough to require a hot load?" "is my patient going to benefit from this type of load and go situation?"

If the answer to the two above questions are Yes then a hot lz is appropriate but I would say that 99% of all the patients you fly will not meet that criteria.

I find that having a hot loading may be a crutch for inexperience. I have flown in my 16 years of EMS approximately 500 patients (80% were from the ER I worked at to a larger facility 50-80 miles away). I can honestly say I can't remember any of those patients who truly required a hot loading. Maybe 10 did but the others it was completely appropriate to shut the bird down and load safely.

I'd say that Hot landing zones should be extremely limited to the patients where 7 minutes will mean the patients life or death. I also believe that hot landing zones should only be used in the most dire of circumstances.

[Richard B the EMT]

I must interject here, when the NYPD effects a Medevac, they supply the helo, pilot, and an air observer, FDNY EMS supplies the EMT or Paramedic. Also, the choice to shut down the rotors doesn't seem to be available to the EMS side, rather, it seems to be the pilot or NYPD makes that decision.

[Richard B the EMT]

I have posted the following request for information on www.justhelicopters.com, and will post any replies I get.

On an EMS web site, I found out a Paramedic was killed this week, during loading a patient into a Medevac flight, where, if I got the information correctly, the moving rotor dipped as he stood up. This was in Sedona, Arizona, USA, at night.

I, personally, have flown in a tourist helicopter one time, and as an FDNY EMS EMT, put a patient into an NYCPD helicopter, also one time. The NYPD helicopter pilot did not stop engines and stop the rotors, which, I believe is referred to, as loading "Hot".

Is there a set policy amongst helicopter Medevac agencies and/or their pilots as to, in a non secured area, loading a patient while "hot', or shutting down?

I was given the figure of an approximately 7 minute turnaround time from shutdown, blade rotation stop, restart, and back in the air. Is this accurate, and if not, how long does it take? Does this time allotment change dependant on the type of helicopter?

Thank you, in advance, to any and all who respond to this, which will be reprinted in a similarly named string at www.emtcity.com .

[island emt]

In our states system 99% of air evac calls are done cold load for safety reasons. The little bit of time to shut down and spool down the rotors is probably not going to make much of a difference in saving a life.

When we set up an LZ no one is allowed to approach the aircraft until met by, and accompanied by a member of the flight crew. They will usually come to our ambulance to do an assessment while the aircraft is spooling down. We then proceed to approach the "cold" aircraft and assist with loading pt and equipment.

Safety is the #1 priority with Lifelight of Maine

[Dustdevil]

I'm thinking that Ak and I, and a few others here, think of something entirely different when we think of a "hot LZ". :?

[JPINFV]

^

Is that the same type of hot LZ that Hilary Clinton once visited?

[FormerEMSLT297]

I'm thinking that Ak and I, and a few others here, think of something entirely different when we think of a "hot LZ". :?

Funny I thought the same thing ... From what I read and heard in the Helo comm. The Az DPS Trooper Medic was killed doing either a one skid step off load, or a toe him load,,,,, this NOTHING like what you call a hot load for a medevac.

The procedure he was doing was the pilot was flying the a/c and he was holding a hover over a pinnicle or peak, because there was no room to land, and he was slowly transfering the hikers, from the peak into the a/c,,, when something happened,, weight shift, sudden gust of wind,, etc.

If NYPD is still using their 412's (looks like hueys) for medevacs, the rotor disk is 12+ feet off the ground, and you have very little to worry about from the rotor disc.. the tail rotor is still dangerous, but the crew and LZ officers should keep you well away from that......

As far as "hot vs. Cold" loads, we do them all the time in MD, DC, VA, and they pilots will usually only shut down when there is an extended extrication time..

Every helo is different, but you only get so many sarts, you are allowed to do per month, and the transport times, in NY and my area are so short, shutting down does not make much sense,, when transport is hours. then the time shutting down is always safer.....

Different helos have different Rotor disc clearances, For EX. a Bell 206, even a 407, I would ALWAYS duck with those as the disc is like 7-8 feet off the ground and a strong gust could bring it closer if the pilot is not running @ 100% (low idle like.)

But no one towe ins and step offs are confined space rescue procedures and they are a lot more dangerous than hot loading at a secure LZ with good ground officer direction.

[firedoc5]

Most of the time when we had a chopper come in, they would land but would let us approach while still shutting down with blades still turning. Those of us that had the additional Flight Safety Tech. course had large orange patches on our flight vests so the pilot and crew knew who could and could not approach. If someone did not have the patch the pilot would use the PA and stop them. We would off load what gear they needed.

When ready to take the pt. to the helo pad, the pilot would have gone first and would already had things warmed up and in motion. Again, only those of us with the orange patches were allowed to approach and help load the patient. If for some reason it was only one nurse and she wanted an extra set of hands, one of us would go with them.

As for using the term "hot" or "cold", I guess the way we did it was "warm".

As for when we had a chopper come into the airport to fuel, and it was a true "hot" fueling, we had our airport Crash/ Fire/ Rescue on standby and at the ready.

[towheadedmule]

I'm thinking that Ak and I, and a few others here, think of something entirely different when we think of a "hot LZ". :?

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