FD Launches In-House Paramedic Education Program

[VentMedic]

As far as firefighter salaries go, they are negotiated for the work done as firefighters. We are not paid a dime for being EMT's except when these personnel are detailed to actually work on an ambulance and then they receive a higher hourly wage. In fact, because I know it would make you all feel so warm and fuzzy inside, an EMT is paid $.01 cent an hour less than paramedics while they are working on the unit. I guess that will make you anti-union as well.

MFD can't figure out why they have had a problem recruiting Paramedics over the past few years?

I can see the EMT not being recognized in the pay scales since many departments do require that and it isn't that big of a deal to get as a certification.

At least the other FDs departments in this country that do attempt to do EMS well know how to make their pay and career ladders for some incentives. And yes those departments are also union so you can not blame your department's problems totally on your union.

You have definitely done a good job at exposing your department's problems. There are times when you should learn to stop yakking.

[MemphisE34a]

MFD can't figure out why they have had a problem recruiting Paramedics over the past few years?

At least the other FDs departments in this country that do attempt to do EMS well know how to make their pay and career ladders for some incentives. And yes those departments are also union so you can not blame your department's problems totally on your union.

Where did I identify that as a problem? It is not, it is AWESOME!!

Again however you read to much into or not enough of my posts. Paramedics are paid all of the time between Driver and Lieutenant pay regardless of what kind of equipment they are riding that day - fire or EMS. Firefighters who are EMT's are paid an additional hourly wage only for the hours that they are assigned to an ambulance.

If you were not so ignorant about our department and new something more about it other than what you have read in a newspaper article or 4 year old study, you would know that incentives and a career ladder is in place - albeit I am not sure why you are interested in a career ladder as you are under the assumption that once you no longer ride an ambulance you lose all of your knowledge and are no longer capable of determining the difference between BLS, ALS, and BS calls.

Additonally, we have had no problem recruiting paramedics over the last 2 years. There have been dozens apply from several states - the most popular being Ohio.

[VentMedic]

Thanks to all of your enlightening posts I think everyone knows way more than they ever cared to know about the Memphis Fire and the sad picture you have painted of it for us. The citizens of Memphis also deserve better and not have those who are there to provide medical assistance judging their calls before they even see them. If you are doing this by location, I believe there are a few terms for that and the people of Memphis should not be judged by you on where they live, what color or economic status they are.

Recruiting Paramedics? Dude, that made headlines on many news wires and thus the discussion! I seriously doubt if any of us would have cared about MFD if it hadn't made the news with its answer to the Paramedic shortage.

The newspaper article is from October 13, 2008.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/...ass-in-session/

The study was sent to me by members of your department knowing I would post it and they would not have to worry about retaliation from you as their Lt. Your statements still make many things mentioned in that study very relevant.

[MemphisE34a]

If you are doing this by location, I believe there are a few terms for that and the people of Memphis should not be judged by you on where they live, what color or economic status they are.

Ha. Another one of you wonderful assumptions. I cover medical calls over about 1.5 square miles. The population consists of 99% poor, black people. The other 1% consists moslt of hispanics and the handful of white people that live in our territory who have been there so long they can't afford to move out. Therefore, I am not judging anyone by any of the demographics you describe, they are all equally poor, deprived, and challenged.

Recruiting Paramedics? Dude, that made headlines on many news wires and thus the discussion! I seriously doubt if any of us would have cared about MFD if it hadn't made the news with its answer to the Paramedic shortage.

Again, you read a newspaper article. I work here. I am aware of what the issues are. The problem here was hiring a "diverse" pool of paramedic applicants.

The study was sent to me by members of your department knowing I would post it and they would not have to worry about retaliation from you as their Lt. Your statements still make many things mentioned in that study very relevant.

I can assure you that none of the 3 paramedics assigned to me sent you anything. Even if they had, I would not retaliate against them or anyone else for having an opinion.

[VentMedic]

Ha. Another one of you wonderful assumptions. I cover medical calls over about 1.5 square miles. The population consists of 99% poor, black people. The other 1% consists moslt of hispanics and the handful of white people that live in our territory who have been there so long they can't afford to move out. Therefore, I am not judging anyone by any of the demographics you describe, they are all equally poor, deprived, and challenged.

You really don't know when to stopping yakking do you? I and everyone else read what you stated about the calls in your area. Because of those demographics you have determined their medical needs are BS without leaving your recliner.

[Dustdevil]

As far as firefighter salaries go, they are negotiated for the work done as firefighters. We are not paid a dime for being EMT's except when these personnel are detailed to actually work on an ambulance and then they receive a higher hourly wage. In fact, because I know it would make you all feel so warm and fuzzy inside, an EMT is paid $.01 cent an hour less than paramedics while they are working on the unit. I guess that will make you anti-union as well.

You cannot possibly be that incredibly naive as to think that EMS has no impact on your wages. Again, if your wage negotiations were based upon you having only twenty-five percent of the workload you currently have, do you really think the city would have offered to pay you what you are currently paid? Not a chance. It has nothing to do with medic incentive pay. It's about the amount of work you perform justifying your salary. And seventy-five percent of the work you perform is not the work of a firefighter.

So yes, it absolutely does make a difference in your salary, and it absolutely does give your union boys and administration monetary motivation to keep EMS within the department. Remember that next time you hear some blowhard talking about how EMS shouldn't be a for-profit service. No matter who is running it, someone is making a profit. Altruism in the fire service is less of a myth as it is a bold faced lie.

[MemphisE34a]

You really don't know when to stopping yakking do you? I and everyone else read what you stated about the calls in your area. Because of those demographics you have determined their medical needs are BS without leaving your recliner.

Like I said, you make up want you want to believe. What I stated was that I can generally with a good level of accuracy call ALS or BLS from the house, which is why I am sure you haven't found the exact quote as you have so many times before.

[MemphisE34a]

You cannot possibly be that incredibly naive as to think that EMS has no impact on your wages. Again, if your wage negotiations were based upon you having only twenty-five percent of the workload you currently have, do you really think the city would have offered to pay you what you are currently paid? Not a chance. It has nothing to do with medic incentive pay. It's about the amount of work you perform justifying your salary. And seventy-five percent of the work you perform is not the work of a firefighter.

So yes, it absolutely does make a difference in your salary, and it absolutely does give your union boys and administration monetary motivation to keep EMS within the department. Remember that next time you hear some blowhard talking about how EMS shouldn't be a for-profit service. No matter who is running it, someone is making a profit. Altruism in the fire service is less of a myth as it is a bold faced lie.

I think pertaining to this we are both right. I whole heartedly understand your point. It is my point however that going on medical calls and car wrecks on a piece of fire apparatus IS part of the job of a firefighter. For that we are not paid anythign extra, it is as you pointed out already part of our negotiated salary. When a firefighter is detailed to work a shift on an amubulance he is paid extra.

Point being that a firefighter with 20 years on the job who is not required to be an EMT is paid the same thing as a firefighter with 5 years on the job that is required to be an EMT. There is no salary adjustments for being an EMT in that regard.

[jbanagas]

Hey man, no one is knocking that FF/PMD isn't a sweet job if you can get it. Man if I could join one of those services in the states that run ALS engines with no transport. No offload delay, no transfers, lots of hands on the engine to help but not as much lifting. Good pay, benefits, 2-days on 5-days off, work as a contractor on the side for more big bucks, bask in public respect and enjoy the fruits of more than a century of hard fought gains by the unions. Sounds like great work if you can get it.

Here's the problem, keeping these jobs is at the cost of allowing EMS to make its own gains and establish itself the way Fire did. Fire broke away from private insurance companies by the turn of the 10th century and found its feet as its own profession. It was free to increase its standards for training and equipment and in the process a mature well developed Fire-Rescue system was created. Just stick to that and let EMS do the same and break away from it's tangled roots to find its own place to grow.

You're right, private EMS does not, as a rule do well by EMS either. But you may have noticed that no one here has argued that EMS was perfect and that Fire came along and broke it. What is being argued is that EMS is a the cusp of redefining itself, not by the toys we carry, or by cardiac arrests and MVC's, but as prehospital health care. For this to happen, the EMS system must shake off any factor that will prevent this. Whether this be a medicare/medicaid billing that discourages a service from exploring public health issues, prevention or other aspects of primary care. Or volunteer squads which keep us latched to decreased education standards and low pay and no benefits. Each provider model on its own has its problems, the patchwork of providers models only serve to bring these problems together and give us a system destined to stagnant, restrained by all these countervailing stakeholders.

The upshot of all this is not, that Fire Departments are evil or that the individual providers are not doing the best they can at MFD. It's that as a system this combined provider model will plateau EMS right here.

- Matt

I agree, unfortunatley I beleive EMS is a "Public Saftey" agency, Police cars have lights, and sirens, Fire engines and trucks have lights, and sirens, and ambulances have lights and sirens. Police officers aren't lawyers they are just an extension and enforcer of the law and paramedics aren't Dr.'s they just deliever a little part of a huge health care system. So where EMS will fall into is uncertain.

[spenac]

I agree, unfortunatley I beleive EMS is a "Public Saftey" agency, Police cars have lights, and sirens, Fire engines and trucks have lights, and sirens, and ambulances have lights and sirens. Police officers aren't lawyers they are just an extension and enforcer of the law and paramedics aren't Dr.'s they just deliever a little part of a huge health care system. So where EMS will fall into is uncertain.

Bad choice. We should be PreHospital Medical Professionals providing emergency medical care from our mobil emergency rooms. If we keep the mentality that we are public safety we might as well forget ever advancing our profession. We might as well return to the day of throw the patient in the back then get up front and drive. We are there to provide medical care not to correct safety issues. Cops and ff deal with that. Heck we should remove lights and sirens from our mobile ER's and start taking care of our patients during safe comfortable rides rather than rushing and dumping.