CCEMT-P just what does it stand for

[Ridryder 911]

Thanks for adding the additional language, I failed to do so. Yes, they are not for primary responses however; many services will charge for an ALS II for an emergency interfacility transport. Yes, they have to meet the requirements for SCT.. .yet many do and the EMS does not take advantage for services they provide. Aviation EMS and Speciality Transport teams are well abreast of this.... every time there is a interfacility transport..

This is a justified charge increase for services rendered. Again, most of those in EMS Administration have little to no formal business or health care administrative education, rather a "good ole boy" promotion. One of the multiple reasons EMS is drowning....

[VentMedic]

True many states have direct licensure with the NREMT; (eg. all you need is the gold patch and the state gives you a license to practice), some have their own test, whatever. But if you look at the basics of the argument here about using CCEMTP, then that argument would hold about NREMTP. I hold an NREMTP card, and 3 different State EMT-P Licenses / Certifications. If I would hold to this argument, then I should use NH EMT-P, or MA-EMT-P, or simply EMT-P, and withhold the NREMTP because it means nothing! Obviously I don't agree with this interpretation; and truly don't we have bigger fish to fry?!?

If you look at what each state calls a Paramedic in their statute, that is your official title. If you want to use a "cert" title, great, just remember what state you are in. In states that use their own exam, you may be asked to show proof of your licensure in that state if you only hold yourself out to be NREMT-P by signature or name tag.

Dr. Bledloe is responding to comments on his article and the CCEMT-P cert at the website where the article was posted.

http://www.ems1.com/columnists/bryan-bleds...e-Vanity-of-EMS

There is a big difference in that the UMBC does not hold itself out to be a "certifying" agency and only certifies (certifcate of completion) that you have completed an introductory course. It offers no more than that.

Rid mentioned the FP-C earlier which is a nationally recognized certification offered by the Board for Critical Care Transport Paramedic Certification (BCCTPC) and has certain mandates along with CEU requirements.

http://www.certifiedflightparamedic.org/

This certification is a test of one's knowledge and is much more difficult than the UMBC CCEMTP test.

The BCCTPC contracted with Applied Measurement Professionals (AMP), a leader in the industry in test validation and psychometric analysis. The methods used by AMP are consistent with professional and technical guidelines such as those detailed in the Standards for Educational and Psychological testing (1999) by the American Educational Research Association, the American Psychological Association and the National Council on Measurement in Education, which provide the research framework that is used as a basis for validity of certification. The methodology used met the current professional and governmental standards to assure the defensibility of the exam, as well as meet or exceed the standards of the National Commission for Certifying Agencies (NCCA) and the National Organization for Competency Assurance (NOCA).

I do not see the same wording in UMBC's course.

Now for the CCRN certifications, the AARN even details how and when the certification is to be placed after one's name.

http://www.aacn.org/WD/Certifications/Cont...u=Certification

And, this is also included:

AACN Certification Corporation specialty exams, CCRN, CCNS and PCCN, as well as the subspecialty exams, CMC and CSC, have all been accredited by the National Commission for Certifying Agencies (NCCA), the accreditation arm of the National Organization for Competency Assurance (NOCA). Created by NOCA in 1987, NCCA's mission is to help ensure the health, welfare and safety of the public through the accreditation of certification programs that assess professional competence.

To receive accreditation, AACN Certification Corporation is required to meet the strict standards set by the NCCA. A peer-review process is used to establish these accreditation standards, evaluate compliance with these standards, recognize organizations that demonstrate compliance and serve as a resource on quality certification.

Being accredited by accepted national agencies who provide standards is very different than PDQ ambulance service or medic mill handing out titles after a few hours of an inservice.

[Just Plain Ruff]

wow what a corner this thread has taken. Good good discussion

[saboats]

Yes.. you are right about the ALS2 vs SCT Billing at most companies, and the lack of training most in charge of these services actually receive on this.

As far as FP-C, VS CCEMTP: Both have CME requirnments after initial testing to remained "certified" by them. If you don't complete the required critical care con-ed for either, then you need to take the test again to retain the certification. As far as which test is harder, that's a matter of opinion. Some people found the FP-C test easier then the CCEMTP test and vice versa. I personally didn't find the CCEMTP test all that difficult, but I studied my arse off for it. FP-C, flight phyisiology kicked my arse - the critical care stuff is pretty much the same.

I personally have no vested interest in either exam, and I won't advicate for 1 vs the other. The CICP also I've heard is a butt buster (out of the Cleavland Clinic) but I haven't had the pleasure.

As far as "being challanged for state credientals if you use NREMTP" ; i had never been asked, excepted when OEMS was at the base doing inspections, and that state required you to carry your card at all times while on-duty. That state didn't even recognize the NREMT at any level and most of us wore our "gold patch" every day, in the state capital....

Again, I think that we as EMS practicioners have bigger fish to fry then this, and maybe we should be discussion permissive hypothermia in post arrest, or hypertonic saline in head injury, RSI, or thrombolytics for STEMI ect ect ect.....

[VentMedic]

Again, I think that we as EMS practicioners have bigger fish to fry then this, and maybe we should be discussion permissive hypothermia in post arrest, or hypertonic saline in head injury, RSI, or thrombolytics for STEMI ect ect ect.....

But, until EMS gets something standardized, adding more skills without adding increased understanding of how and why things work like they do in relation to the body, there will be continued criticism. The advertisements for this profession still read, "You too can do all this in just a few short months". Like adding intubation to the EMT-B level, Paramedics are also adding more "skills" without the additional education. Look at the agencies, example is L.A., that are relying on the EKG interpretation of the machine and not bothering to teach 12-lead interpretation. More recipes without a foundation is not the answer. I personally cringe at the thought of some 3 month Paramedics doing RSI with little understanding of the paralytics, sedation or ETCO2 and let's not forget basic intubation skills. Couple that with the fact that many FFs are "trained" to be Paramedics whether they have ever wanted to be a Paramedic or not. How much effort do you think will be put into their continuing education for medicine? In some cities, it is the FDs that provide the CC ambulance service for interfacility transport. The FD/EMT-Ps can also put CCEMT-P on their tags after a quick inservice. Not all states have the CICP.

[firedoc5]

The OP was just a question asking what CCEMT-P stood for and what it meant. How did we get to the issues of billing? I understand that when submitting charges for services rendered, especially for insurance, you may have to list someone as a Paramedic to prove that paramedic services were provided. But do you get more money if you list someone as a Critical Care Paramedic as apposed to a "regular" Paramedic? Maybe some places you do, I don't know.

[Ridryder 911]

The OP was just a question asking what CCEMT-P stood for and what it meant. How did we get to the issues of billing? I understand that when submitting charges for services rendered, especially for insurance, you may have to list someone as a Paramedic to prove that paramedic services were provided. But do you get more money if you list someone as a Critical Care Paramedic as apposed to a "regular" Paramedic? Maybe some places you do, I don't know.

That is why it was being discussed. Yes, one can increase the charges if they are performing SCT that meet the criteria. Again, the only reason the CCEMT/P was even designed for.

R/r 911

[JakeEMTP]

I have been following this thread with interest since it's inception. I have no idea when it comes to billing what is what, thus my lack of contributions to this thread. I understand the difference between ALS and ALS II and the criteria for both. I assumed that there was an increase in the rate charged due to the services rendered but to what extent I don't know.

The wealth of information provided here daily is what brings me back. It's true you learn something new everyday.

Thank you all for your input.

just my 1 3/4 cents.

[medicwithabullitt]

I believe this is just a good way to get some CEUs and pick up some good knowledge, but the biggest bonus that I can see in this area is for billing purposes. The extra letters allow for high cost to the PTs....I may be way out of line here, but thats how I see things around my area.

You are correct big man If a CCEMTP is on a call then they can bill it as critical care transport or SCT. CCEMTPs are reconized in our state.

[saboats]

But, until EMS gets something standardized, adding more skills without adding increased understanding of how and why things work like they do in relation to the body, there will be continued criticism. The advertisements for this profession still read, "You too can do all this in just a few short months". Like adding intubation to the EMT-B level, Paramedics are also adding more "skills" without the additional education. Look at the agencies, example is L.A., that are relying on the EKG interpretation of the machine and not bothering to teach 12-lead interpretation. More recipes without a foundation is not the answer. I personally cringe at the thought of some 3 month Paramedics doing RSI with little understanding of the paralytics, sedation or ETCO2 and let's not forget basic intubation skills. Couple that with the fact that many FFs are "trained" to be Paramedics whether they have ever wanted to be a Paramedic or not. How much effort do you think will be put into their continuing education for medicine? In some cities, it is the FDs that provide the CC ambulance service for interfacility transport. The FD/EMT-Ps can also put CCEMT-P on their tags after a quick inservice. Not all states have the CICP.

I 100% agree. I wasn't even broaching the subject of a need to increase education. I was actually having that debate with a former employee while I was writing my last post! It is not about skills, when I mentioned thing like permissive hypothermia in post arrest it was all about education. RSI isn't a "skill" IMHO ; it's a tool, that NEEDS to have A LOT of initial and ONGOING education/ QA/QI. 100% agree, education 1st, "skills" second... But isn't even an 80hour intro class (eg CCEMTP) more "education" and therefore a good thing??

PS; to the last post who stated you can bill CC / SCT if a CCEMTP was onboard, not really, unless you enjoy a CMS aduit. There needs to be interventions performed / continued that are above the scope of practice for a "street" paramedic. Simply having you there to give say a Lido IVI doesn't cut it....