Awesome Paramedic school I applied too

[HellsBells]

Hmm, interesting.

I've applied for both Augustana and Portage, I have interviews with both later in the summer. I've heard good things about both programs, but I have also heard some smack about them as well.

The supervisor from my previous job is a graduate of Augustana, and he has nothing but praise for the program. However, I noticed on the CMA website(http://www.cma.ca/index.cfm/ci_id/50602/la_id/1.htm) that Augustana's CMA accreditation expires at the end of this year. I've also been informed that the program is moving out from the University of Alberta's umbrella and being taken over by Lakeland College in 2010. While this won't effect me if I start this year, I wonder why it is going from a University run program to one run by a community college.

Mobey, maybe you have more input or knowledge on this subject then me. I do however have to admit that I'm really not all that pumped about a group canoe trip.

[mobey]

They just got thier accreditation reinstated.

I have mixed feelings on the actual canoe trip - but the rest of the course solidifies my decision.

When you go for your interview I think you will understand.

[DwayneEMTP]

Every class, course, or school that I have ever taken, where they used the team approach, I ended up doing all the friggin' work myself while everybody else either did nothing or just complained. Then they all took credit for my work, and I took credit for their FAILURE. Screw that. This is one of those psychobabble theories that sounds wonderful to all the feel-good social worker and elementary education types, but ultimately FAILS in the real adult world.

So we ignore the science because your experience has been bad? Don't we have issues at the City when anecdotal evidence overpowers scientific data? I think we do.

The window of effectiveness for this sort of silliness passed around grade 8. It has no place in adult education.

I believe that not only myself, but most of the police academies as well as the U.S. military would disagree not only with your assertion that it's "A type of silliness" but your percieved age threshold as well.

Behavioral psychology is overwhelmingly powerful when used in an intelligent, consistent manner. Now, if your suggesting that this is unlikely to happen, then we are on the same page, but the science itself was was solidly proven even before you were born (I know, that seems almost impossible to believe!).

EMS has many intellectual and maturity "boils", most that can be lanced and drained with the proper application of behavioral theory. If once again it's your feeling that the funds will likely never be made available for this type of 'medicine' then again, perhaps we can agree, but to continue to suffer because people pretend to treat these ills with snake oil(pseudo behavioral science), yet call it penicillin (Behaviorism) is to keep EMS the ugly stepchild of the medical world.

Again I'll say, any school with the intelligence and the gnads to put these well proven scientific tools into play, while not eliminating the necessary core concepts of paramedicine, has tentatively got my seal of approval.

Dwayne

[Dustdevil]

I believe that not only myself, but most of the police academies as well as the U.S. military would disagree not only with your assertion that it's "A type of silliness" but your percieved age threshold as well.

I fail to see the relevance of what police academies and the military do in their training programmes. There is no parallel whatsoever to medical education. That is why we are not public safety.

[Dustdevil]

I believe that not only myself, but most of the police academies as well as the U.S. military would disagree not only with your assertion that it's "A type of silliness" but your percieved age threshold as well.

I fail to see the relevance of what police academies and the military do in their training programmes. There is no parallel. They do training. We do education. That is why we are not public safety.

[DwayneEMTP]

I fail to see the relevance of what police academies and the military do in their training programmes. There is no parallel. They do training. We do education. That is why we are not public safety.

But are the two mutually exclusive? I don't see that. Education is about thinking, processing information that allow one to make logical, ethical decisions. Training is about behaviors. Walking, talking, muscle memory. Rarely will you educate someone to 'behave' properly. Nor will you train someone to follow a logic tree and make rational deductions. I simply see EMS, and paramedicine in particular to be in desperate need of both.

It's possible there is no relevance, but what I was reaching for was the fact that they don't simply accept whoever walks through the door, teach them how to be a cop to a level necessary to pass some tests, and then send them out onto the streets.

They take qualified people, (speaking in best case scenarios of course), then shape the attitudes and behaviors that will help them become competent and confident and increase their odds of professional/emotional success, all the while imparting the necessary information for the legal success of their jobs.

Perhaps it is a reach, but I don't see it I guess. Behavioral modification is possible, effective and can created positive, long lasting behavioral changes. I'm not clear why EMS should be excluded from those benefits. Or perhaps I'm missing the point that makes EMS different and thereby immune to these benefits.

Dwayne

[Eydawn]

Medicine is a team effort dependent upon the individual competencies of the practitioners. Yes, you must be the absolute best practitioner you can be and assume full responsibility for all of your decisions and treatments... but no, you are not the end all be all of medicine for this particular patient.

As PREhospital providers, we work within a larger picture. In the field we must be autonomous and make all necessary decisions for the patient's well being. The second we enter the hospital, we must integrate into the team in order to continue providing the best care possible for the patient. We can't just say OK, now it's the nurse's responsibility to figure it all out... we share information and enter the dialogue for a reason.

I personally think that people who enjoy team-building exercises benefit from that sort of learning environment. After all.. you're going to be in class with these people for two years. You might as well start learning how to get along with them. Will it make them better medical providers? If it creates a more positive learning environment in which people can blow off steam and study in healthy proportions, then absolutely.

There are far too many practitioners who see only the individual pieces... and miss the whole... and medical schools are starting to give preference to candidates who are well rounded, rather than illustrious bookworms who can regurgitate biochemical processes at the drop of a hat.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Dustdevil]

The second we enter the hospital, we must integrate into the team in order to continue providing the best care possible for the patient. We can't just say OK, now it's the nurse's responsibility to figure it all out... we share information and enter the dialogue for a reason.

And you think it takes team building canoe trips to train medics to do that? :roll:

You guys are going to have to find some more relevant examples to make this case from.

[DwayneEMTP]

I thought I was pretty specific....

I've approached this subject from the behavioral science aspect, as it is proven science, and is used successfully in many disciplines.

So far you've said, "I don't like it" and "it's silliness that won't work past the 8th grade"...the first obviously true, the second two obviously, provably in wrong by anyone with any kind of psych background.

I entered this discussion based on your contention that behavioral science is nonsense in EMS, I've disputed it and taken the time to flesh out my opinion to make it easier to discuss. So for your points have made no sense, when you made points, instead of simply making comments.

This is one of those time that "cause I said so" just aint gonna get it done. Gonna fish, or cut bait?

Dwayne

[Dustdevil]

I entered this discussion based on your contention that behavioral science is nonsense in EMS, I've disputed it and taken the time to flesh out my opinion to make it easier to discuss. So for your points have made no sense, when you made points, instead of simply making comments.

This is one of those time that "cause I said so" just aint gonna get it done. Gonna fish, or cut bait?

Don't put this all on me. Your constant assertion that those who don't care to play childish games in these pointless discussions are running from something significant is in itself psychobabble. It's the equivalent of, "I know you are, but what am I?" Come on, man. I know you're capable of better challenges than that.

And yes, it is a pointless discussion, just like the rape thread was. These are not issues of scientific certainty. These are theoretical and philosophical discussions. There is no proving me or you wrong. It's just argument for the sake of argument. And frankly, neither of the topics interest me enough to beat my head against the desk over. I'm really surprised that they intrigue you this much. I gave my opinion. That's right, an opinion. You gave yours too, as have others. That's the total extent of my interest. Nothing more.

You think my points make no sense. I think yours make no sense. So where exactly do we go from here? And why is it more incumbent upon me to make sense to you than for you to make sense to me?