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positional asphyxiation is why I recommended utilizing a single backboard, and simply modifying a normal trauma transporting postion by adding Kerlex at the wrists and ankles. Also a NRB is necessary to keep them from spitting on you.

If Dust wrote it, it contains some sarcasm somewhere.

A back board and a roll of Kerlex for each extremity is going to secure a patient much better that any handcuff. Also tape their heads down- Tactical immobilization.

Apparently they thought I would create a post that showed some sort of interest in others. Funny! They inadvertently created a thread that is even funnier than the original.

Did anyone follow the hyperlinK?

The day you found the page.....[/font:091e185ff3] So here we all are!

Whit, I read the entire thread! Unlike some here, I do read the entire thread and the entirity of a person's posts before I respond. My response was based on the fact that you started by saying that it is a judgement call then your last post started spouting the robot mindset. So which is it? I was only poking fun at your inconsistency by illustrating the outrageousness of your last response. No we are not doctors, but we base our treatments on realistic evaluations of our patients. Your initial post(s) indicated that, but when certain portions of your post were rebutted, you eventually reverted to the robot answer of we are not doctors, so I don't diagnose. I am a big believer in BLS transports and gives O2, but I will say that it is important to effectively care for your patient by initiating the assesment and trying to find out what is wrong with them.

There are not too many places a horse can get that a four wheeler cannot. Since Horses and four wheeler cannot transport, in our area Gators are very popular.

It's like the difference between being a whacker and an actual professional. Its all in the individuals attitude. Knowing what is only of use when you know why.

Hey Whit, Do you perform CPR on and defibrillate everyone you encounter? I know it is an extreme example, but it may be necessary since you do not utilize patient and scene assesment to formulate an idea of what is going on with your patients. Do all unresponsive people get naloxone? Do you just strap a person down if they are combative without finding out if they are diabetic? If you were unable to make decisions about patient care, they would not turn you loose without online medical direction for every patient. Do you have to call to give nitro for chest pains? Or do you have to call to intubate someone with a compromised airway?

Ok- He did one whiz-bang job putting me on! "Has anyone seen the independant film (Hell's Highway:The True Story of Highway Safety Films.)? It is a documentary of the creation of those gory instructional highway safety films we all saw during high school drivers education in the 1950s-70s. The non-profit film agency that produced these was partially managed by, and in produced in cooperation with, the former Mansfield Ohio police chief and the Ohio State patrol. It goes into detail about how emergency services functioned back then. For example: Former steps to respond to a traffic accident: 1) State police receives accident call from either a citizen or other police agency. 2) State police desk seargent calls the "on-duty" funeral home which is providing ambulance service for the night, and possibly the local fire department where the accident took place. 3) State police desk seargent dispatches a state trooper to the accident,calls the sheriff for mutual aid, if one of his guys were not available or notifies the municipal police if it is within town limits. --Of course, this procedure varied from region to region, but this is how it was done around Mansfield, Ohio at this time. After the policeman, ambulance, and possibly the fire department, arrived at the scene all they could do was cut the victims out with blow torches and gawk at them while they wrived in agony (calling out to God for mercy etc.) and/or watch you while you were dying until they could get around to rushing you to the hospital. The ambulance attendants were usually nothing more than mortuary employees little who knew little about medical procedures, and who, often, did not even have a high school level education. Of course, cars were also not as safe as they are now and seat belts were not used frequently so you saw a lot of people ejecected, crushed, impaled on various solid steal car parts etc. Indirect quote from the former Chief of Police in Mansfield, Ohio: "If you were not injured in the wreck, you surely were when the ambulance came for you. Two mortuary attendants would grab you, one by the feet and another by the shoulders, and throw you on the stretcher to be placed in the ambulance and rushed to the hospital." If anybody is truly interested in the history of emergency services, they should see this movie: "Hells Highway: The True Story of Highway Safety Films." Also, watch some of the origional drivers education "shock films" that are covered in this documentary and show actual footage of accident scenes and emergency response: Wheels of Tragedy, Mechanized Death, etc! This will really show you how far along emergency services have come. All of them were filmed in Ohio. Of course, I do not really recommend going back to the old system! I was playing Devil's advocate, trying to illicit a response from the emergency response professionals on this forum so I could learn some more. It really paid off in spades! I have really learned quite a bit, supplementing my knowledge from the above-mentioned films, reading and viewing professional cars at shows etc. I will say those who worked in the old system, regardless of their lack of training, had a heart of gold and did provide for their community at their own expense. Whenever you called for help the volunteers would come rushing from work in a moments notice, access the patient and rush you in the ole' station wagon ambulance to the hospital. This was done at a financial loss to the funeral homes and without financial compensation to the volunteers who would have their work days and personal lives interupted to help their fellow citizens in need. It was all about community. However, fortunately, technology, time and the quality of the emergency response methods and systems technology have progressed. However, Hendricks County, and the entire Indianapolis area, still has a bit of a way to go before we have a first tier" system such as the one in Orlando Florida or Seattle, WA. Of course this lies at the management/system level, and is not indicative of the dedication and professionalism of the responders. Thanks to all of you who responded to my thread! It was truly educational! Hopefully, I did not rankle your feathers too much by playng "Devil's advocate." I Have a great day!" http://pub28.bravenet.com/forum/2345688392

No, my experience was that there was probably enough extrication training in B class, Dust. Most other things were lacking though! My take is use the resources you already have coming, three people are not usually enough to extricate a person, and that is leaving another patient without supervision. (My understanding is that there were only the three persons involved in the extrication.) You don't leave patients alone and you don't half-a** immobilizations particularly with such an obvious need per the MOI. Also, the physics of removing a driver seat patient without having access from both sides is either going to hurt you or the patient. The KED is the most underused piece of equipment in our inventory and to all those who don't use it, shame on you (yes, I know rapids need the PHTLS trick or less, but normal process should be to use the KED.) Your partner is an idiot, get a transfer if you can, or just do it by the book because he is not likely to teach you anything useful.

Yep, I am right there with you. He posted something on the safety thread that showed his ignorance, so I am inclined to believe he is just an ignorant old timer, but it just still seems too out there.

Actually, this is likely not a State to State thing, more likely it is a system to system difference in protocols (hospital to hospital). It is frequent here that BLS level patients get checked by a medic, but get transported BLS.

Oh Crap! What have I done? The feeble minds of Hendricks County, Indiana are in for it now. (That generalization is not valid as alot of people are very progressive- see Liberty Township fire protection, and several other posts)

http://pub28.bravenet.com/forum/2345688392/ Here you go!

I debated as to whether or not I should put it on the funny stuff board, but I think they are serious. This forum has had similar posts in the past that were very serious. In fact, our township trustee is of this mindset (although not quite as backwards- he just thinks medics are un-necessary).

Down right common sense way Save Money in Hendricks County Municipalities need to stop buying these fancy ambulances/rescue units and to stop hiring paramedics to run the ambulance. We need to go back to the "good ole' days" when ambulances were basically souped up station wagons with a raised roof and an oxygen tank. Maybe, we could contract out to the funeral homes to provide this service again, if at all possible. I remember when Conkle Funeral home in Plainfield drove me to the hospital back in the 70s after my traffic accident. There was and is none better! Funeral home attendants in white coats can wisk you away to the hospital after an accident or other emergency just as well as an fancy/schmancy paramedic unit with tens of thousands of dollars of uneeded equipment. This worked fine back in the day when I was a young man, and is an option to save us millions of dollars here and now by illiminating uneeded equipoment and personel. The sooner we revert back to the golden age of "classic" ambulance services; the better! The current system is proof positive that emergency equipment suppliers are driving the equipment purchases; not need or common sense. We could use the money for other much more imporatant and much needed activities such as training for factory jobs and GED courses. Fun! Screw your fancy schmancy education and drugs, we needs a bunch of white coats to throw you into a big car all willy nilly and drive real fast. If this doesn't tell us a thing or two about the publics knowledge and perception of what we do, then nothing will. In the process of better training our personnel, we also need to push for some better public education as to what we do, and why we do it.

Indiana is finally moving towards all personnel that respond to EMS calls must be at least a MFR. Granted, that is not enough in my book, but it is certainly a start.

Hence the control + A

My cellphone, I'd carry more but I have whacker phobia.

Because we are too sloppy and make it necessary.

The Evacu-splint is the brand we have. It is not used often, and it is not good for general trauma (MVC,MxC,FDGB), but when it is used it is a gift from above. Hip Fx and pelvic Fx are two situations where it is going to make a world of difference to the customer. We used ours on a woman who had a hip Fx and it provided her with such a nice ride to the hospital that she wrote us a check for the cost of the device for any EMS supplies we wanted. They have a place, but should not be used on just anything.

Serious calls get the shoulder breaker with all supplies and an Lifepack in hand, then the stretcher fetcher (driver) gets the cot and suction unit or backboard as needed. If it is a trauma, then the collars go instead of the Lifepack with the first in, and any thing that may be necessary (KED, etc.) goes with stretcher fetcher.

Goth is kinda sexy? just cause Elvira is sexy doesn't mean a bunch of fat, pasty, overly dramatic 15 year olds are sexy.