Petition to: Allow Ambulance crews to refuse transport

[WendyT]

Petition to: Allow Ambulance crews to refuse transport where there is no medical need for the person to be transported by Ambulance.

This was sent to me from a friend who is a medic in england, if you would like to sign it please do.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/patientrefusl/

[Urbanmedic461]

Interesting

While on one hand I agree we should have a little more say...but, on the other hand this could be dangerous.

I think a better avenue would be the EMS workers have more say in billing cost. Example being Ontario; Full cost (I believe is around $240) for misuse of emergency system. Rather then the $45 surcharge for regular usage. In the past Paramedics were able to determine this, recently revoked to only be approved by receiving MDs.

Then we can debate that tax payers have the right to call anyway, or job security, etc....many avenues to look down.

*Sorry to have so much Canadian reference in the U.K. forum. I am unfamiliar with the billing setup in the U.K.*

[BushyFromOz]

Petition to: Allow Ambulance crews to refuse transport where there is no medical need for the person to be transported by Ambulance.

This was sent to me from a friend who is a medic in england, if you would like to sign it please do.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/patientrefusl/

And what bearing will this petition have on those outside of the UK? :?

[Just Plain Ruff]

it will have no basis on decision making as you ahve to be a British citizen to properly sign the petition.

[BushyFromOz]

Right on, so what relevence does this have to a canadian MFR who has no ambulance to refuse transport in anyway :shock:

[scratrat]

While I believe we should have more to say, I think you asking for a can of worms you don't want opened.

That's face it. We've all done this. When they call for a stuffy nose at 3 am and the ER is still packing with an 8 hour wait, I advise them of this. "Oh, I don't get to go in the back". No, that would be for emergencies. And I inform them that stuffy nose does not qualify as an emergency, and therefore, they are still going to triage. Granted, it's more paperwork for a refusal, but at least I stay on the ER's good side. I probably shouldn't do that. But it comes down to abuse, and no one is going to get paid for a stuffy nose. Especially when they have 3 cars that run in the driveway.

[scope2776]

I think to a certain extent we all do have some level of bias when we call in a refusal we do not want to go into the ER. And I think we do have some level of control over people who go vs. people we think will be fine otherwise. The bottom line is people who want to go, go to the hospital, and people who don't have to wait for us to call med. control.

I believe giving Paramedics or EMTs here in the US the power to outright refuse transport would be a potentially disastrous. As much as we would like, we are not a hospital.

I do support the idea of controlling the billing aspect. Say for instance if there was some way we could document possible abusers or repeat offenders or people who insist on ambulance transport for minor aliments or continued misuse of emergency services. We are not a hospital, but we are clinicians and do have some idea of emergency vs. no emergency; if an ambulance was needed. If for example, the patients insurance would not cover non-emergency transport, or Medicaid would only pay up to a certain amount and the patient would be billed for the remainder, we could have some control over misuse. When an ambulance is used like a taxi the patient should be billed as if they had used one. Just a really expensive taxi....

[BEorP]

Example being Ontario; Full cost (I believe is around $240) for misuse of emergency system. Rather then the $45 surcharge for regular usage. In the past Paramedics were able to determine this, recently revoked to only be approved by receiving MDs

Just to add to this... in Ontario if you charged full cost for every unnecessary use (which does not usually happen now) then maybe the cost for actual emergency use could be dropped so OHIP would cover it entirely (thus making it free in an emergency).

[spenac]

I do support the idea of controlling the billing aspect. Say for instance if there was some way we could document possible abusers or repeat offenders or people who insist on ambulance transport for minor aliments or continued misuse of emergency services. We are not a hospital, but we are clinicians and do have some idea of emergency vs. no emergency; if an ambulance was needed. If for example, the patients insurance would not cover non-emergency transport, or Medicaid would only pay up to a certain amount and the patient would be billed for the remainder, we could have some control over misuse. When an ambulance is used like a taxi the patient should be billed as if they had used one. Just a really expensive taxi....

I think we should be able to deny transport but that was discussed on another post. But if we have to take everyone why not be able to require payment upfront for the expensive taxi ride, or at least a deposit. Most people file all bills for ambulance in the round file that goes to the landfill, at least in my area not even willing to send $5 month. I actually have had the hospital tell us that the patient would have to prepay for ER to be seen, then had patient ask us to take them to the store instead, needless to say patient did not ride my ambulance.

Hey have we taken over the UK? Just wondering how us yanks are on here.

[WendyT]

Spenac said: But if we have to take everyone why not be able to require payment upfront for the expensive taxi ride, or at least a deposit.

I agree that's a very good idea, that's if, what they are complaining about its not serious enough but yet are willing to go by ambulance. You came to their house, you decide what warrants billing, payment now or half, you take cash, debit, credit card.

If I sprained my finger you think I'm going to call you guys, no way, I'll find my percocet and splint my own finger and when the pain has subsided, providing I can drive then I'll goto a walk-in clinic and if one isnt open, then I'll wait for tomorrow.

I cannot believe people can be so short in the grain and their way of thinking is, if I call an ambulance I'll get in faster.