Use of Tazers by the Police

[NREMT-Basic]

Recently, the supervisors in my city's PD have started carrying tazers. My understanding is that they give a shock of 50,000 volts over 5 seconds. Then are then capable of delivering a stepped down shock of 40,000 volts over 5 seconds. After that, the tazer apparently automatically "makes itself safe" and prevents any further use until wires and probes are replaced. My question is what would be the ramifications of a LEO tazing someone with a pacemaker or internal defibrilator? I assume that it would do serious damage, but I wonder if any has any experience with this and whether or not anyone has ever been called out to remove the probes (which are barbed on the end) and assess the patient prior to transport to the jail by the LEO.

I look forward to reading about your experiences. Thanks.

[whit72]

Here is a good article.

http://www.jems.com/jems/30-5/13231/

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Apparently, they can be used more than twice at a time.

Not to start a flame war, this video seems to be a controvertial subject.

Some other questions I would like to add:

My suitemate recently bought a game which involves electrical shocks to the hands, and the warning includes epilepsy. Would that also be a consideration and exactly how? (I'm assuming that it might cause seizures, but what's the probability at that voltage?)

[s:985841eac8]Screws, and other implanted metal parts? What kind of damage could they cause and would it matter how far they are?[/s:985841eac8] (answered already in the post posted while I was writing this one.)

[JPINFV]

^

A little background on that video. According to news reports, UCLA student Mostafa Tabatabainejad was at the university library after 11 pm. After 11 pm, the library closes to non-students and the community service officer (student volunteer) watching the library is supposed to do random checks for student IDs. Mr. Tabatabainejad either refused to show his ID or didn't have it on him (which, being a 5th year student at UCLA is a smidge stupid. He wasn't a freshman that was ignorant of the rules) and then refused to leave. The CSO contacted the police. There is some controversy on whether Mr. Tabatabainejad was leaving at the time the police arrived, but what is known is that he decided to smart off too the officers and "peacefully" resist. After refusing to follow police requests, the police decided to use the taser on "drive" mode to gain compliance. Basically the taser became like a cattle prod. In this mode the taser doesn't fire probes, but shocks the subject with a shorter and weaker shock then the mode used to subdue a subject.

I will be more then happy to provide commentary on this subject if posted in the non-EMS section.

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Oh yes, I knew I forgot something: control of muscles after being tazered. Some claim that the student wouldn't be able to stand up after being tazed and some claim that that first claim is pretty stupid.

And as JPINFV has done, the non-medical issues of a tazer will preferably be kept to a different thread.

[JPINFV]

Article on how tasers work.

http://www.slate.com/id/2154253/

Difference between taser mode and drive mode:

Once the electrodes hit their target, the Taser sends a pulse with about 50,000 volts and a few milliamps. On its standard setting, the pulse cycles for five seconds before shutting off. (The pulse continues for as long as you hold the trigger.) The five-second shock sends intense signals through the victim's nervous system, which causes considerable pain and triggers a contraction in all his muscles. Temporary paralysis can set in, and most victims fall to the ground. Tasers can also be used like regular stun guns in what's called "drive stun" mode. This causes more localized pain and less widespread muscle contraction.

-Slate article linked above

[medic001918]

Our protocol for handling a patient that has been tased is that the probes are not to be removed by EMS and are to be treated as impaled objects. Also any patient that gets tased, is automatically an ALS patient. One service I work for has had two patient code after being tased. These situations are not overly common and often related to a predisposed heart condition. As far as the issues of knowing of a patients heart conditions before being tased by the police, it beats the alternative which often times could be the use of the officer's firearm.

The tasers that the PD's carry in my service areas can be activated as long as the probes are connected. They don't delived a stepped down voltage or anything similar.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Doczilla]

The ramifications of hitting someone with a Taser who is wearing a pacemaker: They wouldn't get shot with real bullets. The Tazer is part of the "force continuum", and depending on how your PD applies it, falls somewhere between being tackled to the ground and getting a beating with an ASP. It is a method of physical control which is safer for the officers and the suspect than many other methods. Tackling a combative person results in injury a large percentage of the time. Shooting them doesn't work out well for anyone. The application of the Taser, keep in mind, is to prevent people from injury that would otherwise be handled with hands-on force, impact weapons, or bullets. One British study on this cited lower injury rates to both officers and suspects with Taser use than other methods.

The fact is that this issue has not been adequately studied in people with pacemakers. A large study is under way at Wake Forest University on less-lethal weapons, including the Taser. This may illuminate some issues. I found one case report of a woman with a single chamber ICD that was hit with a Taser. The ICD interpreted it as V-fib, though the Taser pulse ceased before the device discharged (it was charging up the capacitors to do so), and it aborted firing. This was discovered later on interrogation of the ICD (the patient was fine). The fibrillation threshold for V-fib in humans is roughly 15-25 times higher than the pulse delivered by the Taser, so I don't think the pulse will get carried down the wires into the heart and cause V-fib. It might, however, damage the pacemaker. Again, no studies to show one way or the other.

From a prehospital perspective, a person with an implanted cardiac device should be brought to the hospital and have the device examined and interrogated by the rep (hospitals usually don't have the equipment to interrogate devices, relying on the manufacturer's rep to bring it in when called). An alternative to this would be arranging follow-up with a cardiology office to have the device examined the following day. Strongly consider taking the patient to the hospital anyway to examine the cause or comorbidities associated with the behavior that got them Tased in the first place.

The real problem with asking the question is putting doubt in the officer's mind. There is usually no way to tell if a person has a pacemaker or not, and that hesitation may result in the officer using lethal force (shooting) a suspect when a Tazer may have adequately subdued them. The evidence we have thus far suggests that the few deaths reported are in subjects with "excited delirium" due to drug use or extreme emotional state. I don't think that this should be a contraindication to Taser use either; the alternatives are far more likely to result in injury or death. Application of less-lethal weapons (Tazer, impact weapons, chemical munitions) is not guaranteed to not cause death, just much less likely to do so. The officer should apply the device when the tactical situation dictates.

'zilla

[BushyFromOz]

"excuse me sir...do you have a pacemaker? i cant taze you if you have a pace maker?"

- no response -

"DO YOU HAVE A PACEMAKER?"

-draws glock from holster-

[Doczilla]

Oh yes, I knew I forgot something: control of muscles after being tazered. Some claim that the student wouldn't be able to stand up after being tazed and some claim that that first claim is pretty stupid.

Having been Tased (voluntarily, I might add, no matter what Itku2ER might say about me), I can say from experience it does not result in impairment or control of muscles after the shock is delivered, nor have I ever heard of this from anyone who teaches/uses Tasers. The student was being a drama queen.

'zilla