This week's game of "What's Wrong With This Picture?

[DwayneEMTP]

PRPGfirerescuetech I have nothing but respect for you, but I disagree with you that these posts are pointless and fruitless.

I my basic academy we reviewed dozens pics of accident scenes, trauma etc. an ran through "what ifs" and I would imagine we will do scads more in paramedic school.

I can't think of a single educational venue that doesn't use pics to educate. How do you replace them with text?

Viewing pics forces us to develop mental scenarios and resolve them. I believe it is an absolutely valid way of learning.

I don't believe it becomes invalid because a few people get their panties in a bunch...if we invalidated every thread that stirred someone up the City might as well close it's doors.

It seems to me the attitude in the City is shifting (yet I'm prepared to be proven wrong...again). People used to be wary of whining about things that hurt their feeling if they couldn't back up those feeling with valid facts. Now it seems that being politically correct is trumping education....

Are we to lose the wisdom of you, Dust, Rid, asys, and a few dozen others because they neglect to wrap their posts in velvet?

Perhaps I am just stumbling on threads that are not indicative of the City as a whole...I hope so...for putting education above all else is what separates the City from all the "wanna be's" out there.

I thank everyone for their thoughts....even if I don't like them...

Please...let's get back to focusing on facts...and education...even if it stings sometimes...

Dwayne

[itku2er]

Just so you all know I am against this post and i asked the admin to lock it

It is nothing personal against anyone that posted on it

[Scaramedic]

OK, it's time for Scaramedic's bullet points again...

• 1. Jmac, in defense of my flippant response, the post when I read it initially said nothing about a terrorism incident or I failed to read it all. Either way I would not have made the comments if I knew the situation. Not only because it was a terrorist incident but because I honestly thought it was a pic from a drill. Notice that the patient is undamaged as far as we can see. Flip flops still on, clothes intact, no blood and no burns. It is impossible to see any kind of injuries in the pic, so I just assumed it was a drill. Once again no offense or belittling intended.

2. The Trendelenburg Position, I came to the conclusion that it made no sense long before many of the people on this forum where out of Elementary School. I place it right up there with MAST trousers as a good intention that really did not work. If you believe it works I suggest you further your education in A&P and the mechanisms of shock.

3. Jmac's spelling, before anybody starts ripping on Jmac for his spelling errors consider this. Many of my college professors were from the Republic or from Northern Ireland. Something about the Northwest attracts ex-pats from the Emerald Isle. The education system there is far better than ours. I had a philosophy prof who nicely point out at what "grade" he learned things that we Americans in the class had never heard of. I am willing to give Jmac the benefit of the doubt that he didn't care about spelling errors rather than he is "uneducated."

4. As far as terrorism in the USA, Jmac is right. Americans have not felt the effects of full on terrorism yet. In our lifetime we have had three major terrorist attacks on American soil, 1993 New York WTC, 1995 OK City Murrah Federal Building and the attacks of September 11th. As horrible as these attacks were they were very isolated. Imagine a country were bombs are going off on a weekly basis all across the country, bombs going off in bars, theaters or shopping centers. This the reality for people living in places like Turkey, Israel, India and in the past Ireland and the UK. Only four cities have been affected in all the modern terrorism attacks in the states. Al Queda so far has been all about the large scale attacks in the US and abroad. If they ever change their tactics then we are in a world of hurt. The FBI says there are potentially thousands of terrorists in sleeper cells all across America. When 30 terrorists strap themselves with bomb vests, go to 30 theaters in 30 separate cities across the country, then America will understand terrorism. That is a day I hope never happens but many experts say it is a matter of when not a matter of if. I myself now live in a part of the country that is 2000 miles away from the nearest terror attack. The attitude for many here is that terrorism "will not happen here" and it's an "East Coast thing." Don't believe me? Portland, Oregon has refused to cooperate with a Federal Anti-Terrorism Task Force. The city council is afraid of offending members of the Muslim community even though seven people were arrested here for planning attacks on Synagogues in the Portland area. Thankfully as of right now we feel safe, that can change very quickly and I agree with Jmac that after that day our attitudes will change.

Let the flaming begin... :violent3:

Peace,

Marty

:joker:

[Imagine89]

jpinfv,

i really do think that you should go away and get some experience, by your profile you state that you are a student, study up on MIMMS, if you had any experience of terrerist incidents you may not be so cocky.

these incidents are an entirely different thing to an MCI, an MCI could be any incident with more then the number of Pts that the usual resources service, add to this unwarned use of explosives and its a nightmare for EMS, the usual scene safety goes out the window, other services come into play, EOD, specielist fire, hazchem the works are working around you......i say again working around you, its chaos and takes a while to organise but its still chaos.

picture the first triage from the first Veh on scene or the second, bringing priority Pts away form the area, you seem to think its funny to have one pic to redicule, how do you know when where that pic was taken.

unlike you i have had experience in this, and as a few ppl on this site have as well, i honestly dont think you can even see how silly your arguements and comments are, i did not want to say this as i thought you would have the maturity to leave this be, ppl read your signature and your profile and can see that you probably do not have the experience to actually comment on this, your just a bored student googling for pics...grow up this is not an arguement that i wish to have, even after i left the links you still come back like a petulent child.

I must say that as terrible as terrorist attacks are, this thread in no way disrespects the victims of such a tragedy. It is indeed a way to enhance our eye for problems, and discuss what could be done better, assuming the circumstances were normal. We're not being presumptious of the abilities of the EMS workers involved, due to the fact that we are unaware of any special circumstances. We are critiquing it for our benefit, not to piss people off. If it bothers you, dont read it.

[JPINFV]

jpinfv,

i really do think that you should go away and get some experience, by your profile you state that you are a student, study up on MIMMS, if you had any experience of terrerist incidents you may not be so cocky.

Cocky and confidence are two different things. Cockiness would be me assuming that I'm infallible. I'm not. That said, it's going to take a lot more then "it's terrorism and you're an American, so you know jack about terrorism" or "you're a student, so you know nothing." As I said earlier, terrorism or not, MCI or not, there is no excuse for stupid. trendelenburg with semi-fowlers (which, in itself is stupid and counter productive. What blood is moved is going to pool in the person's butt instead of his chest) for a patient in a c-collar is stupid. I don't know about you, but my gurneys aren't generally in trendelenburg unless it's making it easier to control while a patient isn't on it.

these incidents are an entirely different thing to an MCI, an MCI could be any incident with more then the number of Pts that the usual resources service, add to this unwarned use of explosives and its a nightmare for EMS, the usual scene safety goes out the window, other services come into play, EOD, specielist fire, hazchem the works are working around you......i say again working around you, its chaos and takes a while to organise but its still chaos.

Of course there has never been an MCI secondary to an accident that included explosions, toxic substances, etc. Scene safety should never go out the window. An injured provider is another victim to be treated and transported. Half the time people don't even know it was terrorism until after the initial response (US example would be the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing). All those specialists you listed could also be utilized on non-terrorism MCIs.

picture the first triage from the first Veh on scene or the second, bringing priority Pts away form the area, you seem to think its funny to have one pic to redicule, how do you know when where that pic was taken.

I guess there shouldn't be any mortality/morbidity rounds in hospitals. We shouldn't peer review or critique any calls because someone might be offended. Besides, a person who looks like they have nothing major wrong (one person loading, fully clothed, no visible IV, no monitor, etc) probably isn't the first person removed from the scene.

unlike you i have had experience in this, and as a few ppl on this site have as well, i honestly dont think you can even see how silly your arguements and comments are, i did not want to say this as i thought you would have the maturity to leave this be, ppl read your signature and your profile and can see that you probably do not have the experience to actually comment on this, your just a bored student googling for pics...grow up this is not an arguement that i wish to have, even after i left the links you still come back like a petulent child.

Actually, I don't need google. I got the picture, including caption, from JEMS.com. Finally, I believe in debating and discussing issues, not people. I will not engage in personal attacks such as name calling.

[JPINFV]

OK,

it looks to me that i am beat, thanks prpg for pointing that out to me, my arguments have no grounds, it is OK to ridicule other countries EMS or the fact that things are not done as well as all the things you can find on google.

I'd posted that picture if it came from my home town. I don't have tollerance for stupidity, be it in my company or in another country.

in my opinion it is unprofessional to put up a pic and ask what is wrong with it, people do things that some may see are wrong in their eyes, it is very easy to pick out what you deem are mistakes when you are not involved or do not know the history..in my eyes it is also bad taste

I welcome anyone who wants to take me to task for an action that I do. One of two things will happen, either they're wrong, and they learn, or I'm wrong, and I'll learn.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

PRPGfirerescuetech I have nothing but respect for you, but I disagree with you that these posts are pointless and fruitless.

I my basic academy we reviewed dozens pics of accident scenes, trauma etc. an ran through "what ifs" and I would imagine we will do scads more in paramedic school.

I can't think of a single educational venue that doesn't use pics to educate. How do you replace them with text?

Viewing pics forces us to develop mental scenarios and resolve them. I believe it is an absolutely valid way of learning.

I don't believe it becomes invalid because a few people get their panties in a bunch...if we invalidated every thread that stirred someone up the City might as well close it's doors.

It seems to me the attitude in the City is shifting (yet I'm prepared to be proven wrong...again). People used to be wary of whining about things that hurt their feeling if they couldn't back up those feeling with valid facts. Now it seems that being politically correct is trumping education....

Are we to lose the wisdom of you, Dust, Rid, asys, and a few dozen others because they neglect to wrap their posts in velvet?

Perhaps I am just stumbling on threads that are not indicative of the City as a whole...I hope so...for putting education above all else is what separates the City from all the "wanna be's" out there.

I thank everyone for their thoughts....even if I don't like them...

Please...let's get back to focusing on facts...and education...even if it stings sometimes...

Dwayne

1. The attitude of the city is shifting yes. Not in a good direction either.

2. Exercises like this without a synopsis of the call is simply monday morning quarterbacking without all the information. If you want to quarterback a callk for educational value, post a call synopsis and let the vultures tear it up. To try to identify issues froma 1 dimentional photo has too little information to accurately depict the situation.

We can certainly disagree of the educational value this exercise. I respect your opinion, and appreciate your respect of mine.

3. Wisdom can be passed down in a myriad of ways, and tearing people apart is certainly one of them. The difficult part of that is to do so in a productive manner with fact backing your stance, instead of walking into a discussion with simple opinion that is loosely based in anything distinguishable in fact. Many times, from an educators stance, burying people in information without a sarcastic tone can be just as effective, if not moreso in passing along information.

4. Your incredible potential is nice to see, especially as you begin to realize the said potential in your agressive walk towards being a competent field provider. Your agressive nature in education is heartwarming to see, especially while wading through so many potarts lately in the EMS education cycle.

5. Potart: noun, defined as someone of feeble intelligence with no desire to improve that status.

6. Thank you for the compliment.

Ok, im done. Now back to your previously scheduled debate.

PRPG

[Dustdevil]

Sheeesh... :roll:

You guys have gone way off topic with this nonsense.

This has nothing to do with Trendelenburg, or terrorism, or MCIs, or spinal immobilization.

Just like Marty said in the very beginning, it's all about the pants.