ONTMedic Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 As a Centennial grad with most of my pre-hospital friends being from Humber, we have come to the same conclusion...you get the same pay and the same certificate at the end of it, and ten years years from now will it make a differance? Centennial is the more clinincal, at least in my experience, of the two but humber is definatley more in depth on the theory. So depending on wether you want a theory background or practical background should help with your descion. I don't know of anyone who has gone to Algonquin so can't say anything about that school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Centennial is the more clinincal, at least in my experience, of the two but humber is definatley more in depth on the theory. So depending on wether you want a theory background or practical background should help with your descion. I don't know of anyone who has gone to Algonquin so can't say anything about that school. Just like in the US, most people want the fastest school instead of the best school, I would suspect that in Ontario, more people would be attracted by a school offering a more practically based program than a didactically based program. This is very unfortunate. Practical skills in education are very overrated, and quite frankly, overemphasised in many programs. Think about it. Skills will always get better with practice. That is a given. The longer you perform them, the better you get at them. However, you are not going to get any smarter. And your theoretical education, for all practical purposes, stops when you graduate. It will not get better with practice. In fact, it starts to deteriorate the day you graduate. Given that choice, if there is a significant difference in programs, I'm going for the more theoretical educational than some school that concentrates on skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEorP Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Umm ... first of all, level of certification does not equate to quality instructional skills. Why does it matter that if you are taking a PCP course that your instructor is ACP or CCP? I know plenty of variable levels of medics who are genuine instructors, as they've developed those skills of being able to relate the material to the learner. Quite the contrary as well ... many paramedics who get frustrated teaching because some people can't apply it fast enough (myself included). peace It matters if you are learning to assist in ALS skills... I'd rather have an ACP teaching me what they want done to help than a PCP teaching me what they do to help. Also having ACP or CCP instructors most likely means that they will have had more experience on the road that they can bring to the classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Unfortunately, learning to 'assist' ALS skills is a complete waste of your education. A proficient ACP or CCP would not require assistance with such things. The best PCPs are those who can think independently and do the menial 'no-glory' grunt work on calls. Setting up the stretcher, applying the cardiac monitor, getting a COMPLETE and ACCURATE set of vitals and their parameters (BP, pulse, respirations, skin temp, pupils, GCS and CBG). Even better is the PCP who can do their own complete assessment quietly, interpret the findings and talk to me about what they think is going on. If the patient is genuinely ill, you can bet that I will be the one asking most of the questions, but if you're listening, there's no reason why you can't be thinking about what's going on. I honestly really like it when PCPs take the initiative to do physical assessments (lung sounds, neuro exams etc), because it shows you really want to be a part of what's going on without overstepping your bounds. Trust me, I've been doing this for a while, and I really don't need help with cutting pieces of tape for the IV. If you want to assist with ALS skills, goto ACP school and learn to do them properly, not through a crash course. You're only cheating yourself by thinking your helping the ACP on scene rather then perfecting your own assessments and scene management. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Oh yes ... and I know I'm going to be flamed for this, but experience is irrelevant. There's too many variables that come into play. Who do you think is the better medic? The guy who works for Toronto, does 8 calls a shift, but never sees a truly acute patient? Or the medic who works for Thunder Bay, does 1 call every 3 or 4 days, but every patient is at least a ctas 2? Secondly, most people develop poor habits on the road because it's easier, or quicker. So those sloppy habits translate to sloppy training. It bugs me to no end about people who always mention "the real world versus the scenario world". There's a reason why the MoH has developed those BLS standards, and that's what they expect to be the MINIMUM on every call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akroeze Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Unfortunately, learning to 'assist' ALS skills is a complete waste of your education. A proficient ACP or CCP would not require assistance with such things. The best PCPs are those who can think independently and do the menial 'no-glory' grunt work on calls. Setting up the stretcher, applying the cardiac monitor, getting a COMPLETE and ACCURATE set of vitals and their parameters (BP, pulse, respirations, skin temp, pupils, GCS and CBG). Even better is the PCP who can do their own complete assessment quietly, interpret the findings and talk to me about what they think is going on. If the patient is genuinely ill, you can bet that I will be the one asking most of the questions, but if you're listening, there's no reason why you can't be thinking about what's going on. I honestly really like it when PCPs take the initiative to do physical assessments (lung sounds, neuro exams etc), because it shows you really want to be a part of what's going on without overstepping your bounds. Trust me, I've been doing this for a while, and I really don't need help with cutting pieces of tape for the IV. If you want to assist with ALS skills, goto ACP school and learn to do them properly, not through a crash course. You're only cheating yourself by thinking your helping the ACP on scene rather then perfecting your own assessments and scene management. peace Or what's even better is a PCP who can run an entire call because there is no ALS... sure the guy is in cardiogenic shock and his lungs are filling.... deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Now come on akroeze, let's not go overboard here Remember there's enough studies out there trying to disprove the value of ALS services. ALS has its place, it's configuring it to the needs of the communities that's the trick ... peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONTMedic Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 As someone who spent 7 years being a pcp and is now going through to be acp, I have seen both sides of the fence. Yes a pcp who can do a basic assessment is a great asset to have on a call, but while we can all tear tape for an IV, a pcp is beneficial in prepping all the stuff that is going to make the acp look good. Remember an acp is only as good as their pcp partner. When I was a pcp working with an acp, I was the one getting drugs ready, making sure the monitor was printing when needed, delegating to the fire guys what help was needed and how, prepping the iv. If I wanted to I could make sure that life was really crap for the acp. Learning these skills in college is not a waste of a semester, as a new acp when I graduate then I'm probably going to be working with one of these new grads, if they have a basic idea of how to help me then I'm all over that. As for where you work and how many pt's you see then I think that seeing a wider variety of pt's and knowing how to treat the ctas 3-5 is also beneficial, these people called us because they were concerned for their health and well being. EMS is not all about dealing with the ctas1-2 pt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Unfortunately, learning to 'assist' ALS skills is a complete waste of your education. A proficient ACP or CCP would not require assistance with such things. If you want to assist with ALS skills, goto ACP school and learn to do them properly, not through a crash course. You're only cheating yourself by thinking your helping the ACP on scene rather then perfecting your own assessments and scene management. Secondly, most people develop poor habits on the road because it's easier, or quicker. So those sloppy habits translate to sloppy training. It bugs me to no end about people who always mention "the real world versus the scenario world". There's a reason why the MoH has developed those BLS standards, and that's what they expect to be the MINIMUM on every call. I think I have just found my new best friend! :love10: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Learning these skills in college is not a waste of a semester, as a new acp when I graduate then I'm probably going to be working with one of these new grads, if they have a basic idea of how to help me then I'm all over that. It is. It's not education. It's monkey training that can be done in a couple of shifts on the ambo. It is pointless to take up valuable education time with such nonsense. I would have very little respect for any PCP student who didn't figure it all out on his or her own during preceptorship without having to sit through a semester of class over it. What's next, spend a semester teaching PCP's how to check the oil and tire pressure on the ambo? :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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