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ma2359

"firefighters have really taken advantage of 9/11..."

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There were 2 Paramedics from the FDNY, 1 from Hunter Ambulance/Ambulette Service (Inwood, Long Island, NY), 1 from Forest Hills (Queens County, NYC, NY) Volunteer Ambulance Corps, and I am uncertain how many other EMTs or Paramedics from within the NYC 9-1-1 system members outside of the FDNY. There were also several off duty EMTs and Paramedics from volunteer squads, working their regular "day" jobs.

All told, depending on who you ask, or the information sources, we may have lost up to 18 EMTs or Paramedics, either working the call, or simply just being at the World Trade Center when the planes hit (possibly even on the planes themselves). This is NOT taking into account how many EMTs, Paramedics, Fire Fighters, LEOs, and construction/demolition personnel who have died, and are dying, from varients of (generic) "Trade Center Cough".

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There were 2 Paramedics from the FDNY, 1 from Hunter Ambulance/Ambulette Service (Inwood, Long Island, NY), 1 from Forest Hills (Queens County, NYC, NY) Volunteer Ambulance Corps, and I am uncertain how many other EMTs or Paramedics from within the NYC 9-1-1 system members outside of the FDNY. There were also several off duty EMTs and Paramedics from volunteer squads, working their regular "day" jobs.

All told, depending on who you ask, or the information sources, we may have lost up to 18 EMTs or Paramedics, either working the call, or simply just being at the World Trade Center when the planes hit (possibly even on the planes themselves). This is NOT taking into account how many EMTs, Paramedics, Fire Fighters, LEOs, and construction/demolition personnel who have died, and are dying, from varients of (generic) "Trade Center Cough".

I have no sympathy for FDNY, whom many of their own members bashed the "volunteer" ( A term used to describe the hospital based and private EMS personnel) EMS personnel who died in the same event. Many have refused to acknowledge their own FDNY paramedics were even worthy of mention in the 343, and have opposed their inclusion in FDNY memorials. Most of those comments are no longer searchable, but I remember them clearly.

"The firefighters have really taken advantage of 9/11 and what happened then and capitalized on it and the emotion," Janet Long said Monday during a meeting with theTampa Bay Times editorial board.

FDNY has for many years exemplified all that is wrong with the FD ran EMS model, and the IAFF. FDNY is no friend to EMS in general, or even their own EMS members.

The story does leave out a couple of things.

Is Sunstar Ambulance a private or municipal operation?

Technically...Neither and both. It is one of the last Large Public Utility Model (PUM) EMS systems, similar to KC MAST (wich was just taken over by KCFD despite approx 20 years good performance).

In short, it is a private company that bids on the contract, but is directly run by an appointed board or other governance model. The pro's are that it has far more oversight and control for the tax payers, the cons are it tends to be more expensive than a straight private contract, but less so that a full 3rd service or FD based model. Obviously this is a simplification, but you get the idea. Often the equipment is owned purchased by the PUM itself, with the private service only providing personnel and day to day operation (again under deep oversight).

The story does leave out a couple of things.

Do they want to take it over entirely or just provide assistance?

Its the IAFF, when have they ever "Just wanted to provide assistance?". Having beenin this debate before, often they want an "in", and soon they want it all. Its a common tactic. Just look at Collier County FL as an example, or Kansas City.

I think Janet Long's comment was made in desparation because of the closeness to 9/11. FFs as a brotherhood were hurt in 9/11 but so were EMS/EMTs, Cops and many others. She locks into FFs, becauser that is who she has issue with.

Reminds me of this saying:

"Just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they arnt out to get you..."

In other words...just because she is angry or desperate, doesn't mean she is wrong....

She isnt saying anything new we havent heard in different locals before, or thought ourselves.

Edited by croaker260

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I have no sympathy for FDNY, whom many of their own members bashed the "volunteer" ( A term used to describe the hospital based and private EMS personnel) EMS personnel who died in the same event. Many have refused to acknowledge their own FDNY paramedics were even worthy of mention in the 343, and have opposed their inclusion in FDNY memorials.

FDNY has for many years exemplified all that is wrong with the FD ran EMS model, and the IAFF. FDNY is no friend to EMS in general, or even their own EMS members.

I wish I could say "BS" to these statements, but I know they were true, at least in 2001.

A few years later, when the FDNY put Engine 265, Tower Ladder 121, Battalion Chief 47, and EMS Station 47 (BLS units 47 Adam, Boy, Charlie, and ALS units 47 Willie and Victor, with supervisor unit "Conditions" 47) all together under the roof of a new building (first "combined" house in any of the 5 boroughs of the city of New York), after both FD and EMS chiefs had approached all personnel to ask if they had a problem working with "the other guys", offering anyone who wanted "out" a transfer to station or apparatus of choice, we all were kind of walking on eggshells for the first couple of months, but seemed to be getting along. I say "We", because I was on 47-Adam-3 (1600-2400 tour) when we all moved in.

It is my opinion, and observation, that a Fire Department that REQUESTS to expand operations to include EMS, seems to work better together, than when the Politicians TELL a Fire Department to expand operations to include EMS, especially if existing members of the existing EMS are "grandfathered" in. Negative attitudes by Fire Fighters revolve around "THEY didn't have to go through the same training as WE did, so how can WE respect THEM?"

This is a 2 way street, as long as EMTs and Paramedics regard, and refer to, Fire Fighters as "Knuckle-Draggers", "Rubber", "Bucket Fairies", and other put-down terms. Due to trying to show and obtain mutual respect, you'll note I capitalize any and all references to other EMS, FD, LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) or Hospital ER/ED personnel.

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I wish I could say "BS" to these statements, but I know they were true, at least in 2001.

A few years later, when the FDNY put Engine 265, Tower Ladder 121, Battalion Chief 47, and EMS Station 47 (BLS units 47 Adam, Boy, Charlie, and ALS units 47 Willie and Victor, with supervisor unit "Conditions" 47) all together under the roof of a new building (first "combined" house in any of the 5 boroughs of the city of New York), after both FD and EMS chiefs had approached all personnel to ask if they had a problem working with "the other guys", offering anyone who wanted "out" a transfer to station or apparatus of choice, we all were kind of walking on eggshells for the first couple of months, but seemed to be getting along. I say "We", because I was on 47-Adam-3 (1600-2400 tour) when we all moved in.

It is my opinion, and observation, that a Fire Department that REQUESTS to expand operations to include EMS, seems to work better together, than when the Politicians TELL a Fire Department to expand operations to include EMS, especially if existing members of the existing EMS are "grandfathered" in. Negative attitudes by Fire Fighters revolve around "THEY didn't have to go through the same training as WE did, so how can WE respect THEM?"

This is a 2 way street, as long as EMTs and Paramedics regard, and refer to, Fire Fighters as "Knuckle-Draggers", "Rubber", "Bucket Fairies", and other put-down terms. Due to trying to show and obtain mutual respect, you'll note I capitalize any and all references to other EMS, FD, LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) or Hospital ER/ED personnel.

I respectfully dissagree. it makes no difference if it is the politicians telling the FD, or the IAFF "leadership" or just a bunch of hot heads inthe FD themselves.

FD/EMS It only works when BOTH sides (EMS and FIRE) want it to in a merger and BOTH sides are equal parties. That rarely happens. Otherwise, EMS personel always get the short end of the stick.

Edited by croaker260

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Sorry to go off topic, but Rich I had a few friends that used to work out of 47 in the early 90s (Woodhull). One was an EMT on 47D and I don't know the other unit but he ended up in communications. anyway.

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Sorry to go off topic, but Rich I had a few friends that used to work out of 47 in the early 90s (Woodhull).

After the merger, Station 41 (Rockaway) got renumbered to match with the Fire Battalion it was in. The new number was Station 47 (Rockaway).

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After the merger, Station 41 (Rockaway) got renumbered to match with the Fire Battalion it was in. The new number was Station 47 (Rockaway).

Brain fart. You can disregard my last message. They were out of station 37, not 47.

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They were out of station 37, not 47.

PM me with names. I may still have known them.

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This article is indeed short on specifics, but it sounds like this politician may be right for the wrong reasons. I do find it particularly telling that she mentions Fire Fighters showing up to lobby politicians in their apparatus, while in uniform. This does seem quite crass in my opinion.

I can't speak on taking advantage of 911 in particular, I've never heard a fire fighter mention it specifically up here in Canada. However, I'd say that politicians typically take as much advantage of it as possible whenever it suits them. As George W bragged that there were no further attacks on american soil during his presidency... Not withstanding the fact 911 happened while he was asleep at the wheel (or at the elementry book reading, as it were).

Edited by HellsBells

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Fire Fighters showing up in uniform, with the apparatus, to talk to politicians?

Reminds me of election eve. Rudy Giuliani had just been elected Mayor of New York City, and the cameras kept showing FDNY Fire Fighters dancing at the victory party. How did I know they were Fire Fighters? The turnout gear and helmets were a clear give-away. Less than a year later, the NYC Health and Hospitals Corporation was forced to yield control of the EMS to the FDNY, in the "Merger". That was when I became an FDNY "member".

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