Religous Practices Observance

[Bieber]

I mean really rules are rules (they define a nation) why in our counties do we make exceptions to the rules ?

Competent patients have the right to refuse any treatment no matter how detrimental it may be to their wellbeing. I'm not going to learn about every religious custom out there and intentionally adhere to them to avoid offending my patients, and if a patient requests me to withhold a treatment that I think they need I am going to do my best to change their mind, but ultimately if they request that I withhold a certain treatment in observance of their customs that's their right. It's no different than those folks (the Mormons?) who don't believe in blood transfusions, or (the Jews?) who refuse to get a pig valve.

Now, with regards to taking my boots off before I enter a facility, or as far as me or my partner not entering based on our gender, that's just not going to happen unless I am specifically barred by the owner of the place. We've got a job to do, period. And I'll explain that to them. And it's not an anti-Muslim or anti-Hindu thing, because I've got no more problem with them than I do with Christianity. I'll even pray with anyone that asks me to, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Pastafarian--whatever. Not because I believe in any of their gods but because it seems the decent thing to do.

You've got a job to do and you got to do it, but we shouldn't ever forget that we are only permitted to do as much to our patients as they allow us to. If you can go the extra mile for them without damaging patient care, there's nothing wrong with that.

[uglyEMT]

Thanks for the replies guys.

It is what I figured but wanted others opinions before giving the rookie the wrong answers. I know sometimes we have to go against the grain to get the job done. You are right I would rather stand in front of a judge and explain why i took an article of clothing off to help my patient then explain why my patient died because I didn't. (now I have to check my malpractice policy to see if it covers that LOL)

Dwayne thanks for the in theater input, I figured you, Dust, AK, others would have a good example. Yes I know we are in America and they should follow "our" rules but I had to ask. I know with gang colors and biker colors I wouldn't cut until I asked and was given permission so I wondered with religous observance is it the same. BTW the reason for lack of posts is double shifts, purchasing a new rig for the squad, keeping our current rigs on the road, ordering supplies, and my normal day job LOL Just doing a whole hell of a lot brother, I post when I can.

I know this is a touchy subject and I am trying to be respectful to bring out the discussion. As was mentioned by Beiber that other religons do refuse certain medical procedures based on customs, no matter how rediculous it seems to us personally. Also like the example of the Hindu temple not wanting the female on the male side, with some explination it was allowed but it took time away from the code. I did ask around to a few other folks in my area and one person did state it would be up to the husband or father to allow it, if not and we did, it would be concidered adultry and she would be banished from the community (stoned in her country not ours) and I was surprised by this but this is why I am asking.

I know our biggest tenet as EMTs is do no harm and by removing clothing or disrespecting wishes of others we may be doing harm after the fact. I still don't have an opinion yet and I would hope others will contribute to the thread and hopefully we all can gain some insight.

[HERBIE1]

Every time I have a female Muslim patient, I have tried to have the husband- or father for a minor- present when we did our exam and treatment. Never had a problem. I always inform them I need to get at skin to attatch electrodes, access an IV, etc and they have always been OK with that.

I know in some of our surrounding "nicer" suburbs, on medical calls, families have requested firefighters remove their boots as to not get their expensive Oriental rugs dirty. Usually they comply, or incur the wrath of their superiors for offending the wealthy tax payers. I'm all for making REASONABLE accommodations for people, but I do have my limits.

[uglyEMT]

Thanks for the info Herbie. I didn't know how "strict" these "rules" were adheared to.

As I compile my info I will keep that in mind and teach the rookie properly.

As for the boots off thing, we actually carry slip covers on our rigs just for that purpose LOL Just slide them over the sole of the boot and no worries, once back on the rig or out the door (depending on patient status) just take them off and throw them away.

Edited February 16, 2011 by UGLyEMT

[Richard B the EMT]

The shoe/boot cover is a nice, but probably expensive, item.

I'll presume most of us have had the devout Jewish patient, who won't violate the religious laws, and "ride" in the ambulance during the Sabbath, Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Aside from calling Hatzoloh Chevra Volunteer Ambulance (the biggest volunteer ambulance I am aware of, with International headquarters in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NYC NY), all I can do is remind the patient that a "Grand Rabbi", some centuries ago, said that it was all right to break the Sabbath to save a life.

For the uninformed, Hatzoloh seems to be equal parts EMS and religious practice.

[uglyEMT]

The shoe/boot cover is a nice, but probably expensive, item.

I'll presume most of us have had the devout Jewish patient, who won't violate the religious laws, and "ride" in the ambulance during the Sabbath, Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Aside from calling Hatzoloh Chevra Volunteer Ambulance (the biggest volunteer ambulance I am aware of, with International headquarters in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NYC NY), all I can do is remind the patient that a "Grand Rabbi", some centuries ago, said that it was all right to break the Sabbath to save a life.

For the uninformed, Hatzoloh seems to be equal parts EMS and religious practice.

Great example Richard. I haven't had that yet but I can see it happening.

As for the slip covers I get them from online vendors a box of 50 for 20 bucks sometimes cheaper. It is not something we do all the time but having them on the rig for "that" time is well worth it. We usually know the calls that "require" them as we approach. PD usually tells us to grab them, a set for them too LOL Some people are just strange

[HERBIE1]

Shoe covers? Really? Wow. Totally different environment than what I am used to working in. Yes, we can go into some incredibly nice homes, but the vast majority of house calls are not in the most expensive parts of town, and if they are, they are usually critical patients and the family is usually not concerned about such things.

Our rigs can easily do 25-30+ calls a day. Many of them are in places where I am afraid to even touch anything, much less set down our equipment for fear of having critters hitching a ride in our gear. You guys know the drill- never stand still- always shifting from one foot to another, never lean on a wall or doorway, never lean on furniture unless absolutely necessary- it's almost an unconscious thing.

Well, I guess we should probably invest in multiple rolls of Saran Wrap, bubble wrap, and full body condoms as well. LOL

During winter months, our jump bag and other equipment can get salt on it, dirt, and gawd knows what else. What about the bottom of our drug box or monitor? Obviously we try to keep everything clean, but how far do we go with this? I realize some people like their homes to be museums, but my first priority is to the patient. I try to work as clean as possible, we always pick up our mess, but things happen.

[uglyEMT]

Herbie the boot cover is just for the people that are very anal. Like the ones that ask for shoes to be removed so instead of debating with them we just slip them on and go. I would say maybe 4 calls in 2 years we used them. I initially bought them as a joke for the rig crews but then we were asked once to remove boots and since then they have stood on the rig.

Oh I know what you mean about the not standing still, critter calls. I was on one last night, I actually got back to the squad house switched clothing and through my gear in the washing machine. I wouldn't even dare bring my gear back into my house afterwards.

Trust me Herbie we are a backwoods (literaly not figuratively) squad. Dirst and grime and salt doesn't bother us or for that matter the homes we are going too. Ever see a Budwiser Chandlier(sp) complete with deer rack candleabras(sp)? Yep dey made it dem selves.

Edited February 17, 2011 by UGLyEMT

[tniuqs]

Ever see a Budwiser Chandlier(sp) complete with deer rack candelabra, Yep dey made it dem selves.

Hey Hey hey I thought this thread was about tolerance and understanding of different cultures, those aforementioned objects are my religious art o facts ... don't be bad mouthing my religion bro. those jumping critters be my pets just like sea monkeys in that beer can.

ps you think my avatar is a joke ?

[Richard B the EMT]

The woman I mentioned, who wanted us to remove the shoes before walking across her carpet to take care of her asthmatic child, lived in a public housing development. Her family, like many in such situations, must have either scraped the money together, or done time payments, because the place looked quite nice, actually.

Going off topic for a moment. It doesn't seem to matter if the family which ownes the nice "stuff" is rich or poor, some have the tendency to be overly protective of the "stuff", more than their families.