Just Plain Ruff Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Dwayne, in the sense that these two calls were not truly cardiac arrest saves I agree with you but I think you are overthinking and overanalyzing the whole deal. Were they cardiac arrest saves Nope. But were they saves - yes they were. The way presented make me think that if she had been a little longer in getting to the kids then she would definately have had two cardiac arrests on her hands and in the grand scheme of things on the top of the world, that would be a very bad outcome. The fact that there were two of them with the same outcome is pretty amazing. I think that she indeed did have two saves but not in the conventional sense of saves if you take your requirements of their being in cardiac arrest then no she didn't. But if I remember right in the original post they were in resp arrest or at least heading that way. To get them back is pretty good if you ask me. I know you are not criticising her care one bit, I agree that her care was spot on. But let's not take away from her the fact that without her being there we would have had 2 very different outcomes. And by the way, I just took care of a hoarder who had a veritable vegetable garden coming out her hoo hoo. She ran out of space in her house for the potatoes and carrots so she put them in the only place that she had space. Her Hoo Hoo. Gotcha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 In a general sense I see what you're saying Herb,Jim, but in this case the discussion began with,"My last week of work before my TT, I had 2 kids code on me." So I don't really see the ambiguity here brother.. Unless we're going to argue that "code" in the context of EMS is also ambiguous? Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Was posting the same time as you Mike, so I'll not repeat what I posted to Jim and Herbie above. ...And by the way, I just took care of a hoarder who had a veritable vegetable garden coming out her hoo hoo. She ran out of space in her house for the potatoes and carrots so she put them in the only place that she had space. Her Hoo Hoo. Gotcha Actually you did! My first thought was, "I can't believe on top of all of this he's going to make me call him a lying prick in this thread of all threads!!" Heh...Pretty funny Ruffster... Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMT155 Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 OK, so it was more a respiratory arrest/pending full arrest. Personally, I feel that any time you bring someone 'back' from a potentially life threatening situation it qualifies as a save. Again, this is my opinion only. I do realize the technical difference between respiratory distress, respiratory arrest and a full (cardiac) arrest. Again, in my personal opinion, anyone who is brought to a healthy outcome after being in one of those preceding situations should be counted as a save. Just clarifying my point of view... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 OK, so it was more a respiratory arrest/pending full arrest. Personally, I feel that any time you bring someone 'back' from a potentially life threatening situation it qualifies as a save. Again, this is my opinion only. I do realize the technical difference between respiratory distress, respiratory arrest and a full (cardiac) arrest. Again, in my personal opinion, anyone who is brought to a healthy outcome after being in one of those preceding situations should be counted as a save. Just clarifying my point of view... Jim Yeah man, I hear what you're saying. I was trying to make my comments clear so that everyone could see that they were meant to be taken in the original context of the OP. If you tell me that you rolled on a guy spraying blood after his wife slit his throat, ashy, yadda yadda, and yet you got him alive to the trauma center 20 miles away and are proud of your save, I have no issues with that at all. Tell me that he 'coded' enroute and you got the 'save' and he had better have walked out of the hospital or I'm calling bullshit on your story. See? It may seem as though I'm looking for ways to split hairs here, but I'm really not. At least I don't think so. This is EMS, and for most of us that means medicine, and part of that, in my opinion is trying to the best of our ability to be accurate, for the pts sake, for the sake of our professional appearance, as well as for the educational value that comes from having a 'no bullshit' zone. So, though I don't disagree with you in the context that you and the others mention, in the context of a 'code' the context posited by the OP, I still disagree, though am enthusiastic to change my mind given the chance! Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbare Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 If I understand Dwayne, we simply need to be aware of how we define the term "save." I see two principle arguments here: One involves "saving" a patient from going into cardiac arrest in the first place, while the other involves "saving" a patient from actual cardiac arrest. I would argue these two situations are absolutely not synonymous. If I embarrass your physiology to the point of cardiac arrest, I think we have to consider other concepts that may not apply to other situations. I would consider the analogue of a "code blue" versus a "rapid response" if I take a frame of reference from the field and transition into the hospital. Not to take away from the OP's achievement by any means, I simply want to better define the concepts that are being discussed. Take care, chbare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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