Silence at Remembrance Day ceremony disrupted by protestors

[JPINFV]

Thanks Mike, I didn't actually notice it as I was ignoring the all too desperate reply. I'm not going to reply to Squint anymore in this thread as he's shown himself incapable of discussing important issues (and the issue of rights is an important issue) as an adult. That post earned my only negative point in this thread. I don't negative people who disagree with me, I negative people who can't conduct themselves properly.

Will you ever forgive me ?

FUCK OFF YOU CLOWN !

Color change removed

Edited November 15, 2010 by JPINFV

[emtannie]

OK, I had backed away from this thread, because I didn’t like the direction this thread was going… but when I see this post, I will comment once more…

Seriously, Squint? I thought you were smarter than this. This type of response from you, especially your little hidden message at the bottom, seems very unlike the rest of your posts throughout this site. I understand you feeling passionately about this. I even understand why the protest upsets you. However, resorting to name calling and telling those who present a respectful counter argument what they can do with themselves is really beneath your usually astute replies.

Although I don’t agree with Squint’s last comment, I don’t think you can say that JP has been entirely respectful. I took offense to JP’s comment “Canada can go pound sand.” I didn’t find that to be a respectful argument.

As for your comment “This is the protest you were upset about? A small group of people making fools of themselves…” It was a group of 40 people, which really isn’t that small.

I suspect you would treat this differently had it been at a function you were attending, and you wouldn’t be so willing to dismiss it as not a big deal. How would you have felt if this had happened at your Veteran’s Day function where you were honouring the memories of your family members? Would you have been so open-minded? I'm not saying would you have wanted them arrested, or is it illegal, but would you have been offended enough to say or do something about it? I don't need an answer to drag this thread out any longer, but I would like people to be honest with themselves in what they would do if they were in that situation.

My intent in posting this thread was because I thought the actions of these few were offensive, and I wanted to post it so others could see the news article. I am disappointed that some have chosen to turn it into a contest where I should be getting a ruler out…. This thread wasn’t about me, or JP, or Lone, or Happi, or Squint, or you…. It was about the disgracing of the memories of those who died for their country.

Thanks Mike, I didn't actually notice it as I was ignoring the all too desperate reply. I'm not going to reply to Squint anymore in this thread as he's shown himself incapable of discussing important issues (and the issue of rights is an important issue) as an adult. That post earned my only negative point in this thread. I don't negative people who disagree with me, I negative people who can't conduct themselves properly.

Color change removed

Not sure how you reposting Squint's comment is relevant, JP. Admin removed it for a reason, and Mike's comments served the purpose of showing he said something unacceptable. If you were ignoring the reply, you shouldn't have reposted it. That shows me that you want the attention of "Look, Squint is being an a** to me." You are right, he was.... what positive thing could come of you reposting it?

[paramedicmike]

Although I don’t agree with Squint’s last comment, I don’t think you can say that JP has been entirely respectful. I took offense to JP’s comment “Canada can go pound sand.” I didn’t find that to be a respectful argument.

JP turned when the tone towards him changed. However, I'm not going to defend him. He can do that himself.

As for your comment “This is the protest you were upset about? A small group of people making fools of themselves…” It was a group of 40 people, which really isn’t that small.

I suspect you would treat this differently had it been at a function you were attending, and you wouldn’t be so willing to dismiss it as not a big deal. How would you have felt if this had happened at your Veteran’s Day function where you were honouring the memories of your family members? Would you have been so open-minded? I'm not saying would you have wanted them arrested, or is it illegal, but would you have been offended enough to say or do something about it? I don't need an answer to drag this thread out any longer, but I would like people to be honest with themselves in what they would do if they were in that situation.

I think this is a fair question and bears an answer for the benefit of this conversation.

I have been in this position... confronted by people who thought that the actions of military, and by default military members of my family, were condemnable. Circumstances were not completely similar (and not completely different) to what was presented in the news story or video. Although, the comments directed towards the military, and by default family members serving in the military, and to me for supporting them, were equally harsh.

My honest reaction was that of pride. I was proud of the fact that these people were free to lawfully assemble and speak their mind without fear of retribution or recourse from the government. I was proud of the fact that I live in a society that tolerates and even promotes the difference of ideas and allows for a forum to air ideas. I was proud of my family members who have served to help protect and defend that right.

My response to them was to wear a bigger smile knowing what I just outlined. I'll even admit to a secret joy in finding out that this pissed off the protesters even more.

I was *not* offended by their protests or their comments. Nor did I say anything to them as it was neither the forum, time or place for confrontation. Besides, what good would it have done? Their protests, just as the ones in the video, demonstrated ignorance and stupidity on such a level that they didn't need anyone to make them look bad. They were doing a good job of that all on their own.

My intent in posting this thread was because I thought the actions of these few were offensive, and I wanted to post it so others could see the news article. I am disappointed that some have chosen to turn it into a contest where I should be getting a ruler out…. This thread wasn’t about me, or JP, or Lone, or Happi, or Squint, or you…. It was about the disgracing of the memories of those who died for their country.

I understand. Nor did I think this was about me or you or anyone else who has contributed. I think the difference here is that while you were upset by this, I can think of no better way to honour the sacrifice of those who died defending the freedoms we hold dear than to exercise those very freedoms. If we deny the right of people to exercise the freedoms that people have sacrificed their life to protect then we belittle, demean and completely invalidate the sacrifice made.

That, I'm afraid, is a bigger crime than letting these boneheads hold their protest.

-be safe

[JPINFV]

Although I don’t agree with Squint’s last comment, I don’t think you can say that JP has been entirely respectful. I took offense to JP’s comment “Canada can go pound sand.” I didn’t find that to be a respectful argument.

I didn't think it was disrespectful in the context that I don't have to follow Canadian laws while living in the US just as you don't have to follow US laws living in Canada. Hence, US authorities can go pound sand if you're doing something they don't like. I'm sorry if you took offense to that.

As for your comment “This is the protest you were upset about? A small group of people making fools of themselves…” It was a group of 40 people, which really isn’t that small.

I suspect you would treat this differently had it been at a function you were attending, and you wouldn’t be so willing to dismiss it as not a big deal. How would you have felt if this had happened at your Veteran’s Day function where you were honouring the memories of your family members? Would you have been so open-minded? I'm not saying would you have wanted them arrested, or is it illegal, but would you have been offended enough to say or do something about it? I don't need an answer to drag this thread out any longer, but I would like people to be honest with themselves in what they would do if they were in that situation.

If the setup was similar, I wouldn't have a problem with the police taking no action or demand that any citizens involved exile themselves. There's a difference between disliking the action and demanding people leave the county, and the thread took the "I don't like your message, get out of the country" starting on post 4. Similarly, in your third post (8th post in the thread), you advocated that what they were doing was illegal and that police action should be taken for disturbing the peace. Are you changing your position from the start of the thread?

Not sure how you reposting Squint's comment is relevant, JP. Admin removed it for a reason, and Mike's comments served the purpose of showing he said something unacceptable. If you were ignoring the reply, you shouldn't have reposted it. That shows me that you want the attention of "Look, Squint is being an a** to me." You are right, he was.... what positive thing could come of you reposting it?

Huh? I just checked and it's still there, just colored white.

[paramedicmike]

Yeah. Admin didn't remove it. Squint initially coloured it white so as to blend in and not be seen unless someone either quoted him (that's how I saw it) or highlighted everything he wrote.

[rock_shoes]

I am not a citizen of Canada, nor am I currently located in Canada. As such, Canada can go pound sand. Oh, and if Canada wants to arrest me, come and get me.

Speaking of being disrespectful, you just told an entire country to proverbially “pound sand.” How would you feel if a Canadian citizen stated that the US Declaration of Independence wasn’t worth the paper it’s written on? That would be an extreme showing of disrespect for values at the absolute core of the American populace.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Would you be so bold as to state this particular protest did not exceed “reasonable limits?” If that’s the case I’m afraid we are forever to disagree on that particular point of contention. With regard to the rights and responsibilities of citizenship I said the following in my second post.

If you are a Canadian citizen you have the responsibility to respect the Canadian tradition of honouring those who have chosen to serve Canada.

I would contend that failing to meet your responsibilities as a citizen would construe exceeding “reasonable limits.”

On another important note; until Part I of the Constitution Act (The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) was assented to on March 29th 1982, Canadian rights and freedoms were governed under British law. As a result of this, Canadian law has numerous similarities. To imply that the laws of a constitutional monarchy could somehow be drastically different from those of the commonwealth is uninformed.

[emtannie]

Yeah. Admin didn't remove it. Squint initially coloured it white so as to blend in and not be seen unless someone either quoted him (that's how I saw it) or highlighted everything he wrote.

Ahh thanks..... that makes sense... I thought maybe Admin had removed it from the first post, but it had been quoted before it was removed, so it showed upin the second. My mistake.

[JPINFV]

Speaking of being disrespectful, you just told an entire country to proverbially “pound sand.” How would you feel if a Canadian citizen stated that the US Declaration of Independence wasn’t worth the paper it’s written on? That would be an extreme showing of disrespect for values at the absolute core of the American populace.

In terms of how the USA is governed, the Declaration of Independence isn't worth anything. It holds zero legal weight in determining the rights of the citizens and how the government is ran. Does it carry historical significance? Sure, but that's it. In regards to pounding sand, see my comment to Annie.

Would you be so bold as to state this particular protest did not exceed “reasonable limits?” If that’s the case I’m afraid we are forever to disagree on that particular point of contention. With regard to the rights and responsibilities of citizenship I said the following in my second post.

Considering that they appear to fit within the zone set aside for them by the local authorities and assembled in a space set aside by the local authorities, yes, I believe that they did not exceed the limits placed against them. The limits set up by the local authorities apparently didn't believe it to exceed reasonable limits.

I would contend that failing to meet your responsibilities as a citizen would construe exceeding “reasonable limits.”

So citizens are now required to follow all traditions of their country? Should the US kick out any citizen that doesn't celebrate Thanksgiving? What should the UK do to their citizens who didn't show up to a Remembrance day rally?

Edited November 15, 2010 by JPINFV

[tniuqs]

I'm not going to reply to Squint anymore in this thread as he's shown himself incapable of discussing important issues (and the issue of rights is an important issue) as an adult.

Sweeet ! Unopposed free speech, my life is now complete and my work is done. I do suffer fools poorly, agreed am incapable of discussing important issues and everyone knows that, did they forget that I WAS the village idiots helper in a former life.

Thanks paramedicmike: apparently my hidden messages worked out nicely and titrated and to positive effect as above quote indicate's. I do appreciate that someone was actually smart enough to pick that up, recognizing that a sudden change in tenor is very atypical of me, you must be a fan did you want my autograph ...only 10 bucks USD.

YES I am akin to a Bull Mastiff when one desecrates MY most holy of days, I guess those that are not patriotic missed my entire post on Remembrance day 11/11/11. I thought I was pretty fucken clear, then I get a link to this argument for argument sake and just who is behind the verbal Diarrhea again yup the repeat offender quoting law and not one thing to do with medicine, no shock an awe here in the slightest.

In my religion it is a sin not defend the honour of my ancestors.

paramedicmike: Could you be a bit clearer, you disagreed that they "allowed" the boneheads to protest ? Please explain I am confused ? How would the Bobbys know what would be chanted over amplifying devices beforhand ? I sure wish I had your strength, in your story with protesters in front of you and did nothing about your right to free speech, I have another name for that and it is not tolerance.

Question: Were the protesters in your event screaming "American Soldiers burn in hell," and held signs saying, "Islam will dominate" and, "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell." Oddly still no hypothetical answer to my query as to what would have happened if this protest was held at the Arlington Cemetery on Remembrance Day <cough> gimme a break ... get real.

"British soldiers burn in hell," and held signs saying, "Islam will dominate" and, "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell."

I was *not* offended by their protests or their comments

Yet you attempt to reprimand myself with directed comments and intended to shame me in some way because of F.O. YOU CLOWN but this was offensive to You ? Perhaps instead you should use your powers of moderation and BAN me from this site, I did break the rules visibly, well wait NO in fact paramedicmike YOU disclosed this.

On another note and if you would be so kind: Here is a communication from a friend in the sandbox that monitors this site regularly, he has asked me share his views, because he is not permitted to comment directly while he is in-country.

Please note well these are not my words I have been requested to forward them out of respect for my friend freedom of speech only minutes ago .

XXXX XXXX:

We have become so “politically correct” that we bend over backwards for those fucks, despite the fact they very clearly state they want to kill all of us.

Quite frankly, if those diaper heads pull off another attack, and folks wring their hands and cry, I’ll just say “told you so”

D.B.

call sign bloodymedic.

cheers

Edited November 15, 2010 by tniuqs

[Happiness]

So as this saga proceeds I would like to give an example of how a protest should be done and that is PEACFULLY and with respect. Just so it is know I have not taken anything personally even the statement Canada can go pound sand comment just made me laugh. And I will let it be known that I am dissapointed in some of the members of this community defending the action of these people in the UK. JP you have consistantly hidden behind freedom of speech and if this happened in the US it would be legal well it did not happen in the US, you have even gone so far as to accuse the Bobby's in London of falsly arresting these people and saying that they should be fired etc. All of this comes down to who can win the argument. This isn't a winnable argument in my eyes and I guess nor should it be, as we are all entittle to our opinion. When it comes down to it JP you and I will admit Squint (even though that was a clever little thing)and even myself may have been disrespectful. The OP of this only wanted to show us something that in her eyes was appauling and didnt expect it to sprial the way it has.

So the following comes to mind as we on Haida Gwaii celebrated the 25th year of Lyell Island protest. Lyell Island in Haida is Athlii Gwaii. The Haida took a stand that could have become very violent and made the effort to make it peaceful. It is called RESPECT and though out this whole thread that has been the point that has been forgotten

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Lyell+Island+years+later/3822087/story.html

http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/federal_politics/clips/6854/

Please read the whole artical because it does show that peacfull and respectfull demonstrations are possible in our world.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Happiness