stcommodore Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Most fire departments I suspect have the same tradition of arriving early for whatever reason. On the EMS side its typically 30min to allow crews time to come home and swap, and prevent the offgoing crew getting a late run. Its much different then anyother job. If you really "love" your job you want to go into work and don't think of it as comming in early. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Oh, please. Do you understand how many people covet medical school? There are schools that will get over 7k application, of which only around 500-700 are actually interviewed for 100-150 spots. By your standard, we should show up a 5am for a 7am lecture for no better reason than the fact that there's thousands of applicants who didn't even get an interview. Now, again, as I noted earlier it's one thing to be prepared by start time. However, if it takes me 15 minutes to be prepared after showing up, why should I show up an hour or two earlier if I'm not responsible for something? Having the proper number of people show up early to set up is an important leadership ability known as delegation. Similarly, setting a proper time to meet up so that the job can be completed by a deadline (say, start of that day's session) is another important ability known as planning. Of course this is different than requiring everyone to show up 2 hours early because one person can't seem to be prepared. ...and maybe some services need to do better at scheduling and have an overlap to ensure proper hand off. I don't expect people to show up early, and magically enough, I don't moan and groan if my job requires me to fulfill the duties there of. To be honest, I find the "ZOMG, someone didn't show up 30 minutes early and I actually have to work" to be pretty petty and selfish. People should be making sure their work is done properly and not just staring at the clock like counting down the end of detention. Oh, and I'd place money on the people who can't figure out how to show up on time and need a 2 hour leeway to be the one's who need shortcuts. The people who can actually properly manage their time would probably be the ones that work efficiently and be able to complete their tasks quickly and properly. In terms of preparations, med school and the fire department or EMS are apples and Buicks. Med school is an individual effort(except for labs) Your results arise directly from your efforts and are not dependent on anyone else. Your preparation/study time can also happen nearly anywhere- at home the prior night, at the library, that AM while eating breakfast, on a train to school,- whenever. When you arrive at the firehouse or EMS station, you need to check out your apparatus, your supplies, clean, restock PRN, do any required paperwork, prepare for any drills, receive a report from the crew you are relieving, check out your SCBA, etc. Fire or EMS, you need to work as a team, and that team is only as effective as it's weakest link. As with the military, you need to understand you are part of a bigger picture and when training, the instructors instill that team approach- especially with FSR- your life depends on how well you work together as a team. Anyone who has dealt with a problem child in their station understands how disruptive such a person can be to the unit as a whole. Resentment, anger, mistrust- not good things to have for a team to be effective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Young Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 In terms of preparations, med school and the fire department or EMS are apples and Buicks. Med school is an individual effort(except for labs) Your results arise directly from your efforts and are not dependent on anyone else. Your preparation/study time can also happen nearly anywhere- at home the prior night, at the library, that AM while eating breakfast, on a train to school,- whenever. When you arrive at the firehouse or EMS station, you need to check out your apparatus, your supplies, clean, restock PRN, do any required paperwork, prepare for any drills, receive a report from the crew you are relieving, check out your SCBA, etc. Fire or EMS, you need to work as a team, and that team is only as effective as it's weakest link. As with the military, you need to understand you are part of a bigger picture and when training, the instructors instill that team approach- especially with FSR- your life depends on how well you work together as a team. Anyone who has dealt with a problem child in their station understands how disruptive such a person can be to the unit as a whole. Resentment, anger, mistrust- not good things to have for a team to be effective. Bingo! For JPINFV, an example of showing up early for class/lecture, maybe an hour or two, would be for a group review prior to a test or quiz that day, or to discuss the previous days lectures with classmates when you're fresh, not at a study group at 2200 hrs when everyone's burnt. Those efforts will benefit you as well as your classmates. That's the best similarity that I can come up with in regards to showing up early for the benefit of others.But, if you're only about looking out for #1, I don't know what to tell you. We in the fire service actually look forward to our next shift, we actually enjoy our jobs, and are generally willing to do for others, even though it may be of no direct benefit to us. Oh wait, if we are willing to do for others on the job without being asked, that effort returns in kind. One hand washes the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stcommodore Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Most fire departments I suspect have the same tradition of arriving early for whatever reason. On the EMS side its typically 30min to allow crews time to come home and swap, and prevent the offgoing crew getting a late run. Its much different then anyother job. If you really "love" your job you want to go into work and don't think of it as comming in early. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 In terms of preparations, med school and the fire department or EMS are apples and Buicks. Considering that my quote was made in direct response to someone claiming that a valid reason to expect people to show up 2 hours early is because other people want to do it, your refute misses the mark. When you arrive at the firehouse or EMS station, you need to check out your apparatus, your supplies, clean, restock PRN, do any required paperwork, prepare for any drills, receive a report from the crew you are relieving, check out your SCBA, etc. Fire or EMS, you need to work as a team, and that team is only as effective as it's weakest link. Let's see here. Checking out the apparatuses, supplies, restocking (which should really be done by the off going crew to begin with. How about we target the people who are failing in their duties to keep their units properly stocked unless other, official, means are provided (like vehicle service techs for units that post all day)?), and paperwork (why are you doing paperwork first thing in the morning to begin with that isn't related to restocking?) are all things that can easily be accomplished in the course of the normal events of the day. You're just as likely to be interrupted with a call 5 minutes before an hour as 5 minutes after. Preparing for drills? Ok, I can see that, but does it really take everyone showing up 2 hours early to accomplish that? Additionally, showing up at 5 (2 hours early) means getting up in the 3-4am range. Nice way to start screwing with people's circadian rhythm for no better reason than because someone want's to watch People's Court instead of doing their work (like, say, cleaning their unit). Considering that emergency services are already a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week service with ample opportunity to screw with natural cycles and keep people from getting a proper amount and quality of sleep, why make it worse so someone can watch soap operas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Young Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Most fire departments I suspect have the same tradition of arriving early for whatever reason. On the EMS side its typically 30min to allow crews time to come home and swap, and prevent the offgoing crew getting a late run. Its much different then anyother job. If you really "love" your job you want to go into work and don't think of it as comming in early. Like I said earlier, if you come in early it saves the off going crew a late job, and you get to go home early for the same reason. You're actually working the same hours, but saving late jobs. This doesn't really apply with a 24/48 schedule, though. We did a 1/2 hour early shift change at Charleston County EMS, and we would drive to the hospital for shift change if they're on a late job. In NYC the buses sit on street corners, and generally not allowed to 10-2 (return to station) until 15 minutes prior to shift's end, or risk an NOI (write up). We were always early anyway, just due to parking issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diazepam618 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Considering that my quote was made in direct response to someone claiming that a valid reason to expect people to show up 2 hours early is because other people want to do it, your refute misses the mark. Let's see here. Checking out the apparatuses, supplies, restocking (which should really be done by the off going crew to begin with. How about we target the people who are failing in their duties to keep their units properly stocked unless other, official, means are provided (like vehicle service techs for units that post all day)?), and paperwork (why are you doing paperwork first thing in the morning to begin with that isn't related to restocking?) are all things that can easily be accomplished in the course of the normal events of the day. You're just as likely to be interrupted with a call 5 minutes before an hour as 5 minutes after. Preparing for drills? Ok, I can see that, but does it really take everyone showing up 2 hours early to accomplish that? Additionally, showing up at 5 (2 hours early) means getting up in the 3-4am range. Nice way to start screwing with people's circadian rhythm for no better reason than because someone want's to watch People's Court instead of doing their work (like, say, cleaning their unit). Considering that emergency services are already a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week service with ample opportunity to screw with natural cycles and keep people from getting a proper amount and quality of sleep, why make it worse so someone can watch soap operas? @ hours if pretty common , and if your a "probie" 2 hours is very common, it's mostly tradition, and for 100k plus a year and Eerybody wants your job you better believe people show up and keep to a high stadard, just like these guys in the show they know as soon as their out of the academy they are going to start making some real $$$$$. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Young Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Considering that my quote was made in direct response to someone claiming that a valid reason to expect people to show up 2 hours early is because other people want to do it, your refute misses the mark. Let's see here. Checking out the apparatuses, supplies, restocking (which should really be done by the off going crew to begin with. How about we target the people who are failing in their duties to keep their units properly stocked unless other, official, means are provided (like vehicle service techs for units that post all day)?), and paperwork (why are you doing paperwork first thing in the morning to begin with that isn't related to restocking?) are all things that can easily be accomplished in the course of the normal events of the day. You're just as likely to be interrupted with a call 5 minutes before an hour as 5 minutes after. Preparing for drills? Ok, I can see that, but does it really take everyone showing up 2 hours early to accomplish that? Additionally, showing up at 5 (2 hours early) means getting up in the 3-4am range. Nice way to start screwing with people's circadian rhythm for no better reason than because someone want's to watch People's Court instead of doing their work (like, say, cleaning their unit). Considering that emergency services are already a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week service with ample opportunity to screw with natural cycles and keep people from getting a proper amount and quality of sleep, why make it worse so someone can watch soap operas? Everyone knows that to err is human, so even the best intentioned personnel can occasionally miss something during restock or whatever. It's the oncoming shift's responsibility to ensure that everything is adequate and accounted for, because they are the only ones answerable should there be a discrepancy. At my academy only a few were showing up at 0500. The majority rolled in at 0530-0550, ate breakfast then started work, with one or two coming in at 0630 or so. Their refusal to put forth the same effort as others resulted in them getting the worst post academy assignments, with their new shift being made well aware of their poor attitude and lack of effort in the academy. You see, at the academy you're be evaluated for your "burning desire" to be there, as well as skills and test scores. You may graduate regardless, but the field will see to it that you're made miserable to the point that you leave the job. Nothing that would qualify for a paper trail on the shifts part, either. It's done smoothly and tactfully. Relieving a crew early is most beneficial, as many have side jobs and other obligations, and may well be slammed with heavy traffic after the true end of shift or late job if working in a large urban area. It's a nice thing to do for someone. Simple as that. Every effort you make need not be for personal benefit/gain. @ hours if pretty common , and if your a "probie" 2 hours is very common, it's mostly tradition, and for 100k plus a year and Eerybody wants your job you better believe people show up and keep to a high stadard, just like these guys in the show they know as soon as their out of the academy they are going to start making some real $$$$$. Right. You 're subject to a lengthy hiring process, including an entrance exam, CPAT, polygraph, psych, medical, and maybe oral boards. You earn the spot in the academy, beating out many others. Now you need to show how bad you want it. The job is a very coveted position, and anyone that gets the chance at an academy can consider themselves extremely fortunate. Your job is now hanging on by a thread until you graduate. Anything you can do to gain favor will work in your benefit. You should also have the inherent desire to help your fellow recruits, as they may risk their lives to save yours one day, and vice versa. JPINFV, I uprooted my family and moved several states away for the academy. Anything could have happened, and I would have been out of a job, with a wife and a daughter to provide for. I'm now making 69k base in my second year with a low cost of living, generous pension, benefits, working conditions, decent medical, and a three year DROP (ka-ching!). You better believe that I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make it out of the academy in good standing. whatever it takes. It will now pay off for the rest of my career and my comfortable retirement. The probie needs to raise the flag, make coffee, change the water coolers, plus other tasks prior to the start of work. It expexted of them. The rookie needs as much time as possible form studying and drilling throughout the day, anyway. Everyone did it at the start of their careers. Smae thing for the academy. It's a rite of passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stcommodore Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Key phrase..."right of pasage." Dont residents work extreme hours to learn and prove themselves during there training? Don't white collar/college educated peoe go through years of tough education for a good job? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambodriver Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 A lot of Paramedic agencies do not do that type of academy becasuse, IMHO, who wants to go thru that, for the meager salary they are paying. When FDNY is starting people at 31Kper year, and medics at 43K, and that is some of the higher salaries i've seen, whowants to go thru tha for that end. Plus if FDNY woul pay you to PT on duty, they woul;d be in major back log. 43k is a good salary? Seems like FDNY guys are getting screwed (Hey its ok lots of hard workin' EMS folks are) especially with the cost of living in NY etc. I wish you guys the best.. Here Academy was 3 months for medics, 6 months for FF's. PT was brutal....attention to detail was the most important thing. It helps establish a feeling of pride in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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