Hello, everyone

[JTpaintball70]

We have another refugee. Welcome man!

[HERBIE1]

Let me ask a question regarding the fire based ems?

Let's say that I'm a firefighter and paramedic working for a fire based ems service. I am hired completely for the ambulance and I never will work as a firefighter.

I spend all my efforts on being a good paramedic and limited time on strictly keeping up my firefighting certs.

Does that automatically make me a bad paramedic or sub-par paramedic just for being a firefighter and a paramedic?

I'll jump on that. In who's realm are we talking about here? What is your call volume? Do you have ample opportunity to exercise your skills? I submit that many folks who have all the training in the world may be great providers, but are inexperienced. Big difference. Same with being a FF. You may have all the certifications in the world, but unless you get to use those skills, you can't be on top of your game until you utilize that training. Additionally, as a FF, if you don't get that experience, I submit that it could be a dangerous thing to have all the credentials and be asked to be in charge, but reading about something and actually doing it- especially in our business are 2 vastly different things.

I've seen many guys who have gotten every possible fire certification, FF2, 3, officers, all the technical rescue classes, etc, but have seen limited fire duty. They become officers or chiefs and suddenly are in charge of situations they may never have experienced. To me, that is a recipe for disaster, and have seen first hand how dangerous that can be.

In the EMS setting, the danger isn't necessarily to yourself, but to the patient. The more you are trained to do, the more possibility there is for harm. That's like asking a 1st year medical resident to lead a difficult operation or treat a medically complicated patient with no back up. Bad idea.

I don't think you can peg this is a fire based vs single role EMS issue. Much depends on the experience and training of the provider, as well as how often that provider- FF or EMS person- can use their skills. Additionally, some fire based EMS systems are very pro EMS, while others look at EMS as a necessary evil or a red headed step child. Conversely, a cross trained FF may be vastly superior to a single role provider if that single role does not have the opportunity to use their skills.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I'll jump on that. In who's realm are we talking about here? What is your call volume? Do you have ample opportunity to exercise your skills? I submit that many folks who have all the training in the world may be great providers, but are inexperienced. Big difference. Same with being a FF. You may have all the certifications in the world, but unless you get to use those skills, you can't be on top of your game until you utilize that training. Additionally, as a FF, if you don't get that experience, I submit that it could be a dangerous thing to have all the credentials and be asked to be in charge, but reading about something and actually doing it- especially in our business are 2 vastly different things.

I've seen many guys who have gotten every possible fire certification, FF2, 3, officers, all the technical rescue classes, etc, but have seen limited fire duty. They become officers or chiefs and suddenly are in charge of situations they may never have experienced. To me, that is a recipe for disaster, and have seen first hand how dangerous that can be.

In the EMS setting, the danger isn't necessarily to yourself, but to the patient. The more you are trained to do, the more possibility there is for harm. That's like asking a 1st year medical resident to lead a difficult operation or treat a medically complicated patient with no back up. Bad idea.

I don't think you can peg this is a fire based vs single role EMS issue. Much depends on the experience and training of the provider, as well as how often that provider- FF or EMS person- can use their skills. Additionally, some fire based EMS systems are very pro EMS, while others look at EMS as a necessary evil or a red headed step child. Conversely, a cross trained FF may be vastly superior to a single role provider if that single role does not have the opportunity to use their skills.

WEll, call volume for you alone is about 1300 to 1500 calls a year. The other ambulances run about the same. The only medics on the service are on the ambulance, there are no medics on the fire trucks.

Can you as a firefighter/medic who's sole job is to be a medic, can we really lump people into the category that they are doing EMS a dis-service?

We are on this board and many of the opinion that firemedics are less of a provider but if you are strictly a medic but with fire/medic title, can we automatically assume that that person is less of a provider than the person who only has the medic title.

I'm just not understanding the hatred here of firemedics or am I just missing the boat altogether and is it just the organization that has firemedics that we despise?

I am having a hard time grasping this concept some have here.

I have many friends who are paramedics and firefighters who are excellent ems providers. I also know of some poor ff/medics but I know more good ff/medics than bad.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Ruffems

[HERBIE1]

WEll, call volume for you alone is about 1300 to 1500 calls a year. The other ambulances run about the same. The only medics on the service are on the ambulance, there are no medics on the fire trucks.

Can you as a firefighter/medic who's sole job is to be a medic, can we really lump people into the category that they are doing EMS a dis-service?

We are on this board and many of the opinion that firemedics are less of a provider but if you are strictly a medic but with fire/medic title, can we automatically assume that that person is less of a provider than the person who only has the medic title.

I'm just not understanding the hatred here of firemedics or am I just missing the boat altogether and is it just the organization that has firemedics that we despise?

I am having a hard time grasping this concept some have here.

I have many friends who are paramedics and firefighters who are excellent ems providers. I also know of some poor ff/medics but I know more good ff/medics than bad.

Thanks for the reply.

I think that this is a turf war. Many people feel- and rightly so- that the fire service receives most of the attention and the funding when it comes to public safety.

The problem is on both sides of the issue- fire service wants to make sure that they remain "in the loop", and despite the fact that we will ALWAYS need fire protection, thanks to advancements in construction, building codes, fire prevention, and education, fires are down. That means to maintain their level of funding they need to become more relevant, and absorbing EMS is the best way to do that. EMS feels that fire infringes on their turf and does not have the same level of commitment towards providing medical care- ie fire is only doing to because they have been forced into it.

Yes, many of the opinions expressed about fire, EMS, and their relative capabilities are generalizations, but there is some truth to them. I've been in both worlds and in hospitals as well. Again, the problem is that a pressing issue for one area is NOT an issue at all somewhere else, thus to have a united front- on either side- is tough.

The reality is that for some time, agencies are being asked to do more with less, and anyone who can wear multiple hats is an asset to their agency and their bottom line. In these economic times this couldn't be more accurate. Is this the best thing for the public- well, that still remains to be seen, I guess but what choice is there? I think we all must adapt to these changes in order to survive and that means compromise on all sides of the issue.

[46Young]

Let me ask a question regarding the fire based ems?

Let's say that I'm a firefighter and paramedic working for a fire based ems service. I am hired completely for the ambulance and I never will work as a firefighter.

I spend all my efforts on being a good paramedic and limited time on strictly keeping up my firefighting certs.

Does that automatically make me a bad paramedic or sub-par paramedic just for being a firefighter and a paramedic?

How about you start a thread on the subject? I can offer good discussion on the matter, as can others that are on the other side of the fence. The main problem that I see in the forums are individuals taking a particular FD's shortcomings and extending it to the entire fire service, like it's supposed to be the same everywhere. There are stellar examples of both fire based and third service EMS, as well as debacles of both. We can provide numerous case studies across the country to support either side of the argument, depending on what articles you cherry pick and what spin you put on it.

No matter where you work, it's up to the individual to strive for excellence. I've seen plenty of skells throughout my travels on both sides.

[flight-lp]

We have another refugee. Welcome man!

Is that what we are being called???? lol

Hey 46, welcome to the other side...........I think you'll find it a bit more appeasing here.