To Medic's

[cosgrojo]

Wendy is terribly over educated for the certification she carries, she simply digs EMS. Unfortunately her first foray into working the streets landed her in a backwards redneck service that still allows medics to get their rocks off by proving their superiority over basics. Idiotic.

What? Dwayne... I thought you hated Basics regardless of their intellect or education simply because of their patch.... Now you are defending them? You are an astoundingly complex individual.

Sometimes it seems that the lazy and ignorant have used hugs and high five's to take over, and at times it's simply heartbreaking.

I have neither received a hug, nor a high five from anyone on this site... and frankly I am beginning to feel left out.

You belonged on this board a few years ago when Dust and ak ruled the day and stupidity never went unchallenged. It's a different world now.

I too tend to get frustrated by the lack of intellectual debate, and educational banter... But I slightly disagree with your methods. Maybe it is BECAUSE of the fervent challenging of peoples positions that make them reticent to post and defend and get involved in subjects over their heads. As much as I thrive on conflict and direct opposition, I don't think that that agrees with most people's personalities. While most think that people in EMS are type-A personalities, I do not. Most in EMS are sheep-like in their lack of personality, and don't have the confidence or drive to stand up to attackers or challengers.

Don't misunderstand me Dwayne... my tactics don't seem to work either. The soft and cuddly word-smith routine only lasts as long as I keep the aggressive nature of my argument style at bay. As you have noticed in past debates... passively trying to draw people into arguments only to aggressively torture them when given the opportunity. So what I am trying to say is that we all have played our roles in dumbing down the caliber of debate... some through aggression, and some through passive aggression. What I do not like however, is calling people out by name and handle and making them the pariah of the thread. It is uncalled for, and definitely takes us down a few notches on the civility chain. It is possible to rant and get your point across without having it devolve into personal attacks, because then we just either naturally try and defend ourselves personally, or go on a counter attack... or even worse, do not reply and end all discussion right then and there.

Not so long ago my response to Kiwi, you and Fiz would have started a 10 page debate..but now it's a thread killer. No one has the balls to debate and take a chance on being wrong or getting their feelings hurt, at least very few are willing to do so. I find it ironic that the biggest balls left on here come from our female posters...perhaps we need to change the saying to, "Yeah, they just don't have the boobs to run with this crowd." :-)

In the past it was a complement to be the last poster on a hard fought thread, because you were the final word on a hotly debated subject, and that sometimes meant that no one could counter your last statement. Unfortunately now it just means no one cares enough to continue on with their arguments. I have been decidedly disappointed with premature thread ending several times during my not-so-triumphant return to the City. There have been some very high quality threads that have died unnecessarily. (BTW Dwayne... severely disappointed in your lack of participation in the Kumbaya thread, thought you could have added a lot... and you buggered off on the BLS/ALS integration thread too...*sigh* had such high hopes for them.) To comment on your female poster mantra... I agree, if any of the women that I grew up with had balls... they would be bigger than my head. Women are naturally more ferocious in intellectual and interpersonal debates, and have a hard time stopping themselves. It is the one thing that I have been pleasantly surprised since I've been back... much more female presence... and they appear to swing with the boys quite nicely... (double entendre most definitely intended).

I disagree Dwayne. Most of us are just sick and tired of having to type the same facts day after day. And then the same idiots fighting despite facts presented. This ans other EMS sites seem to be having the same problem those of us that fought hard are just tired of the online crap.

Shame on you spleenac... I expected more fight out of you... well maybe not fight... Ok.... i didn't really expect much at all out of you... but maybe in the future you will.... no... sorry.

*didn't actually edit anything... accidentally hit edit button and immediately saw the comedic value of it... and this addition is the result *

Edited August 19, 2009 by cosgrojo

[DwayneEMTP]

What? Dwayne... I thought you hated Basics regardless of their intellect or education simply because of their patch.... Now you are defending them? You are an astoundingly complex individual.

No, I don't hate basics in any way. Some of them get on my nerves, but being a basic is simply a co morbidity to being an ass to begin with.. :-)

have neither received a hug, nor a high five from anyone on this site... and frankly I am beginning to feel left out.

Yeah...I hear you. A word of advice for the future. Its imperative that you compliment for no reason, forgive the unforgivable, and talk a lot about how lovey lovey things are in chat...until you can man up and produce, no high fives for you man...

...too tend to get frustrated by the lack of intellectual debate, and educational banter... But I slightly disagree with your methods. Maybe it is BECAUSE of the fervent challenging of peoples positions that make them reticent to post...

See! That's a perfect example! If you were to talk like a normal person I might think you were saying that sometimes I mean to push, run right past aggressive and end up acting like an asshole. Now if that is what you are/were saying, then I'd have to stop and say, "Hmmm...He seems to have a point. If my posts continue to kill threads because they scare people off perhaps it's time to drop the self righteous bullshit down a notch or two?" Yeah, I get that. And can learn from that. And hopefully post more productively because you took the time to respond. Thanks man.

...Most in EMS are sheep-like in their lack of personality, and don't have the confidence or drive to stand up to attackers or challengers.

And if so, then isn't the first, most productive thing that they can learn is that EMS requires intestinal fortitude? I mean, C'mon, if you can't be brave here, how will you ever pretend to defend your patients against all comers?

...don't misunderstand me Dwayne... my tactics don't seem to work either. The soft and cuddly word-smith routine only lasts as long as I keep the aggressive nature of my argument style at bay. As you have noticed in past debates... passively trying to draw people into arguments only to aggressively torture them when given the opportunity.

Yeah, I get that.

... What I do not like however, is calling people out by name and handle and making them the pariah of the thread. It is uncalled for, and definitely takes us down a few notches on the civility chain.

You lose me here brother. When you, Matty and I spent a few days kicking each other in the teeth, how long would that have lasted, or how convoluted would it have become had I not simply said, "Cos, I think you're and idiot and should be killed." and you, "Well, Imeth not so terribly...eth thrilled with your most seriously unattractive countenance either!" (or something like that) Paraphrasing of course... :-)

I think the best thing to come of that was a lesson in arguing and/or debate. That was as aggressive as I've been here in a long time yet you never blinked, as well, you never got so bent out of shape that when it was time to let it go that you had trouble with that...We need to be specific. In one post I addressed Firefly, Kiwi, and Fiz. How long would it have taken for me to make those same juvenile points anonymously? Plus, people need to be held responsible for supporting their ideas and positions. No one benefits from coddling those that will suffer from being coddled. Right?

...didn't actually edit anything... accidentally hit edit button and immediately saw the comedic value of it... and this addition is the result *

That made my day... You're a peach. (And I don't really think you should be killed)

Dwayne

[cosgrojo]

No, I don't hate basics in any way. Some of them get on my nerves, but being a basic is simply a co morbidity to being an ass to begin with.. :-)

Like being a diabetic... and a fat-ass?

See! That's a perfect example! If you were to talk like a normal person I might think you were saying that sometimes I mean to push, run right past aggressive and end up acting like an asshole. Now if that is what you are/were saying, then I'd have to stop and say, "Hmmm...He seems to have a point. If my posts continue to kill threads because they scare people off perhaps it's time to drop the self righteous bullshit down a notch or two?" Yeah, I get that. And can learn from that. And hopefully post more productively because you took the time to respond. Thanks man.

I think that it is patently clear by now that I am not able to talk like a normal person. Recognize my disability and work around it please... but you were able to decipher my code well... I will teach you to speak cosgrojo yet, young grasshopper. Your reply is exactly what I meant, and I need to reflect on my own stratagems as well. It is hard to try and write something that will speak to the masses in a way that everyone understands. It is the major obstacle to being a good teacher... we do not have the luxury of one-on-one time with each individual "student" (i.e. readers of these forums, of which we are all students). I have noticed that my "wordy" proclivities tend to obfuscate most of my statements... but as you can see... I am unable to de-program myself easily.

then isn't the first, most productive thing that they can learn is that EMS requires intestinal fortitude? I mean, C'mon, if you can't be brave here, how will you ever pretend to defend your patients against all comers?

It may be that our interpretation is that the strong-willed ability to defend yourself and your patients is very important... but others may not. Some people are not built to be brave. That doesn't mean they aren't good providers, just not someone you want around in a scrap (physical or intellectual). It is exceedingly difficult to find people that are able to encompass all of the qualities we want our providers to have, and that goes for all walks of life... not just EMS. But on the whole, I agree with your statement.

You lose me here brother. When you, Matty and I spent a few days kicking each other in the teeth, how long would that have lasted, or how convoluted would it have become had I not simply said, "Cos, I think you're and idiot and should be killed." and you, "Well, Imeth not so terribly...eth thrilled with your most seriously unattractive countenance either!" (or something like that) Paraphrasing of course... :-)

I will capitulate this point... but I resent the Shakespearean overtures... I f'n hate Shakespeare.

I think the best thing to come of that was a lesson in arguing and/or debate. That was as aggressive as I've been here in a long time yet you never blinked, as well, you never got so bent out of shape that when it was time to let it go that you had trouble with that...We need to be specific. In one post I addressed Firefly, Kiwi, and Fiz. How long would it have taken for me to make those same juvenile points anonymously? Plus, people need to be held responsible for supporting their ideas and positions. No one benefits from coddling those that will suffer from being coddled. Right?

As much as I enjoyed our squabble and look forward to future squabbles... I'm not sure that others have the ability to take a step back like we did and re-approach the subject. This unique ability to go for the jugular is not always accepted by all. I believe that some times it is our methods that push people away. I, like you, think that it is spineless horse-bleep to run and hide when things get edgy... but I think we have some responsibility as long time residents of the city to regulate ourselves for the common good. But it is possible that I am just a wuss...

[fireflymedic]

As far as I am concerned with things, frankly if someone desires to call me out and force me to verify my point, I'm more than happy to do it. Sometimes I prefer to have the discussion via PM as I have done so with a few (that reminds me croaker - I still gotta get that stuff to you sorry been crazy busy !) due to the fact I care not to release some personal information due to some issues I have had previously with member harrassment on the board that got out of control. If asked, I will defend my point or give you the links to which you can research it for yourself.

I try to make educated remarks and not speak like an ass. If I don't know or can't make intelligent conversation about it, I'll keep my mouth shut. Sometimes, that is the most intelligent thing one can do. And as far as calling me out - have at it. I'd rather have someone address me personally than me sit there thinking - did they perceive my post that way? Sometimes I post things and it doesn't come out quite as I expected it to sound (hmm imagine that when you're posting at 3 am). Please don't make me guess if you are referring to me or not. I may step on toes and if I do, I'm sorry, but I rarely stomp on them unless a comment is completely invalid or has no medical basis.

Everyone stay safe out there. Oh and dwayne, this for you !