CBEMT Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Whether or not this particular "repatriation" was a secret or not wasn't really my point. Edited July 27, 2009 by CBEMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentMedic Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Why deport these people secretly? I'd rather they do it publicly. Whether or not this particular "repatriation" was a secret or not wasn't really my point. While this was all being decided during the course of the patient's care from 2000 - 2004, he, his guardian and family had some right to privacy. The patient did not need all of his medical care open for public viewing and it is unfortunate that many of the medical details are now available in the court documents. Some counties and states do made their deportation records available especially for those who are in the criminal justice system. There are probably sources to follow online as well if that is your thing. However, for this patient, this was a different circumstance and he did have immediate family to care for him when he got back to his own country. We do repatriate patients after they get medical care quite often under many other circumstances. Deportation is another issue. Edited July 27, 2009 by VentMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBEMT Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Ok, fine. Second specification of original intent. I would prefer it if there was a policy created, enforced and publicized regarding the repatriation and/or deportation of illegal aliens who become medically dependent or otherwise drain such resources (ie the 6 times a week homeless alcoholics that might also happen to be here illegally) while in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentMedic Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Ok, fine. Second specification of original intent. I would prefer it if there was a policy created, enforced and publicized regarding the repatriation and/or deportation of illegal aliens who become medically dependent or otherwise drain such resources (ie the 6 times a week homeless alcoholics that might also happen to be here illegally) while in this country. Okay you've made your point as you have in the other threads. You hate the homeless and illegals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireflymedic Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I have mixed feelings on this. While I think we have a responsibility to provide appropriate stabilizing care to the illegal immigrants (per emtla) we do to everyone. However, as far as long term care, I think we are under no responsibility if american citizens are required to pay for the care. If they are paying privately for this care, by all means allow it to continue. My problem here lies in the fact that we can barely take care of our own. I see seniors taking their dogs medication because it is cheaper to purchase through the vet than through the pharmacy. Children that have things that could be fixed being refused because their parents do not have medication. People who worked hard all their life being denied care outside of the ER because they don't have insurance. It's not because they are lazy, it's because they just happen to land in that unfortunate bit of not poor enough to get charity and too poor to afford it on their own. That's why the ER is becoming the primary care clinic of the new century and that "specialty" is dwindling in students pursuing it. If we are providing a service to an illegal immigrant, we should be willing to provide it to an american citizen, the same way, free of charge. I'm not saying let the illegals die, I'm saying stabilize them, then deport for their own country to care for. Any other country would most likely do so to an american citizen that could not cover costs in some form or another. We have physicians who are all gung ho on going to "underprivledged" countries to take care of the poor little children. And yes, I feel bad for them, but heaven forbid an american child walk in their office that their parents can't afford to pay for an operation and can't get insurance despite their best attempts. They certainly aren't going to volunteer the great majority of the time. Yet we praise them for their good efforts overseas. My theory always has been and always will be - take care of your own first, and once they are all cared for, take care of someone else. America would do good to follow this thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sasha Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'm conflicted on this issue, truly. I usually advocate illegal immigrants, but that is a LONG time for a patient to be in the hospital. If alternatives were offered to the family and they kept rejecting them, what other choice did they have? They can't go along providing free treatment while the patient's family refuses to accept any alternative placement. However if there was no attempt to find alternative placement then they are truly in the wrong. At any rate, I hope that they lose the lawsuit because I don't think the patient or his caretaker will see a penny of that money either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentMedic Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'm not saying let the illegals die, I'm saying stabilize them, then deport for their own country to care for. Any other country would most likely do so to an american citizen that could not cover costs in some form or another. When a Haitain who comes to this country illegally or a Cuban with "wet-feet" arrives and are in need of medical care, it will provided. Then, they will be immediately repatriated to their own country to suffer whatever consequences. Essentially, the medical provided may only allow them to live a little longer because they may face execution or imprisonment for many years in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireflymedic Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Not to be cruel or sound extremely harsh, but that is a chance that they took. They understood when they got on that boat or made that trek that they stood a chance of being caught and if so being deported back. I understand that they are trying to make a better life for themselves, but do so legally please. If you come to this country legally and are working, paying taxes, like the remainder of americans I am all for doing everything in my power to help you. If not, I believe provide the stabilizing care and send you back to face the consequences of your actions. America is a very inviting country, unlike some other countries, we do not require you to prove that you can support yourself when you come here, some are "married" just to get here, among other things. If you want to come legally, chances are we will let you in. I believe in people's right to pursue a better life and I know at some point the vast majority of us came from immigrants. However, they did so legally. If you are an illegal immigrant decendant, I seriously pray at some point they pursued becoming legal. Having worked within a career outside of EMS which is predominantly run by illegal immigrants (to the point that immigration buses are brought through every few months to deport the illegals) I found frustration. I will be the first to say, many were excellent workers and worked hard because they were trying to provide for their families back home. However, I felt frustration in that I was working just as hard and receiving less money as I was being taxed and had to work almost double the hours to make the same amount of money as they did illegally. From the EMS perspective, I see they are receiving free medical care and it angers me, not that we provide the care, but it is at an increasing cost to legal americans and we cannot provide the same coverage to our own. I see some leaving AMA that desperately need treatment or not going to the hospital until they are nearly dead because they know they will not be able to pay the hospital bills. Collections are pursued on those that do try to obtain care and they are gone after for everything they have. Illegals on the other hand are not gone after because the places know that they will be unable to collect as they leave no paper trail. I experienced a severe car wreck nearly five years ago and went through a vast amount of medical bills. I am still paying them off even with very good insurance coverage. I know many others like myself. Yet an illegal receives the same care and will not have to pay for it. How fair is that to us? I am not coming down on you vent as you know I respect your opinions, but what do you propose as a suggestion to solve the problem from both sides? I'm all for hearing an idea to serve both communities in a fair manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentMedic Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Not to be cruel or sound extremely harsh, but that is a chance that they took. They understood when they got on that boat or made that trek that they stood a chance of being caught and if so being deported back. I understand that they are trying to make a better life for themselves, but do so legally please. If you come to this country legally and are working, paying taxes, like the remainder of americans I am all for doing everything in my power to help you. If not, I believe provide the stabilizing care and send you back to face the consequences of your actions. What I mentioned about the Haitains and Cubans is very legal. The process is clearly written but separately for each country since there is a specific "Wet feet - dry feet" process for Cubans. Wet feet, dry feet or no feet, it doesn't matter for Haitians. They are repatriated. Deportation is another matter and has its own process again some are specific to country. If depends on the country if they get the choice to come to the U.S. legally. Many cannot even get a permit to visit sick family. I seriously doubt if the mother of this patient was ever given that opportunity. I do not always agree with the way the laws are written for people from different countries but one country is accepted differently than others. I am the last one that is going to discrimate against someone that needs medical attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentMedic Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) US jury favors hospital that deported immigrant July 27, 2009 - 9:12pm MIAMI (AP) - A hospital that sent a seriously brain injured illegal immigrant back to Guatemala _ over the objections of his family and legal guardian _ did not act unreasonably, a jury found Monday. Deputy Court Clerk Carol Harper said the unanimous six-member jury found in favor of the hospital and against the guardian of 37-year-old Luis Jimenez, a Mayan Indian from Guatemala. Health care and immigration experts across the country have closely watched the court case in the sleepy, coastal town of Stuart. The hospital had cared for Jimenez, who was uninsured, for three years. But it was unable to find any nursing home to take him permanently because his immigration status meant the government would not reimburse his care. "Hospitals are not intended to become long-term housing," said Linda Quick, president of the South Florida Hospital & Healthcare Association. "The issue is that there are no long-term providers required to take people for whom they know they are not going to be paid." She said that as a result of the case, hospitals will likely begin planning for discharge as soon as they admit patients they suspect cannot pay and could require long-term care. The lawsuit filed by Jimenez's cousin and legal guardian sought nearly $1 million to cover the estimated lifetime costs of Jimenez's care in Guatemala, as well as damages. The hospital said it was merely following a court order _ which was being appealed at the time _ and that Jimenez wanted to go home. Jimenez's cousin, Montejo Gaspar, was named his legal guardian because of his brain injury. Gaspar's attorney Bill King said he was extremely disappointed with the ruling and was reviewing all options including whether to appeal. "There is no doubt that the state government and the federal government has to address the situation," he said. "They can't let something like this happen again." Martin Memorial Medical Center's CEO and president Mark E. Robitaille said in a statement the hospital was pleased with the ruling. "We have maintained all along that we acted correctly and, most importantly, in the best interests of Mr. Jimenez," Robitaille said. But he agreed lawmakers must step in to ensure hospitals are not put in the same position in the future. "This is not simply an issue facing Martin Memorial. It is a critical dilemma facing health care providers across Florida and across the United States," he added. Robitaille, who was not yet head of the hospital when Jimenez was send back to Guatemala, said he was concerned that none of the health care reform proposals being debated in Congress address the issue. Like millions of others, Jimenez came to the United States to work as a day laborer, sending money home to his family. In 2000, a drunk driver crashed into a van he was riding in, leaving him a paraplegic with the cognitive ability of a fourth grader. The man who caused the accident _ which killed two people _ was driving a stolen van. An insurance policy ended up paying a total of $30,000 in compensation to Jimenez and the families of the three other victims. Under federal law, hospitals that receive Medicare reimbursements are required to provide emergency care to all patients regardless of their ability to pay and must provide an acceptable discharge plan once the patient is stabilized. But the hospital couldn't find anyone to take Jimenez. Eventually, backed by a letter from the Guatemalan government, the hospital got a Florida judge to OK the transfer to a facility in that country. Fearing the Guatemalan letter held an empty promise, Gaspar appealed. But without telling Jimenez's family _ and the day after Gaspar filed an emergency request to stop the move _ Martin Memorial put Jimenez on a $30,000 charter flight home early on July 10, 2003. Gaspar eventually won his appeal, with the court ruling a state judge doesn't have the power to decide immigration cases and that Jimenez should not have been sent back. By then, Jimenez had been released from the Guatemalan hospital and was living with his 73-year-old mother in her remote one-room home in the mountainous state of Huehuetenango. King said he believed some good had come from bringing both the initial appeal and the most recent case. "We've shown that state judges cannot authorize what is tantamount to private deportation of undocumented immigrants, and that hospitals have to follow the federal requirements that are in place for the discharge of all people, including undocumented immigrants," he said. http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&sid=1723818 Edited July 28, 2009 by VentMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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