itku2er Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 (Click to view this embedded page in a new window) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) Depending on the situation, yes. As I said on a different EMS forum, "Out of the hands of the zealot parents and into the hands of the zealot state." Edited May 15, 2009 by JPINFV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiebug Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Depending on the situation, yes. As I said on a different EMS forum, "Out of the hands of the zealot parents and into the hands of the zealot state." Well put. Conventional medicine is not always the best option. Until now, it has been up to the patient or gaurdian of the patient to decide what they felt was best for them. Now I see that freedom has been stripped away too. While this is about trying to do what's best for a child, it's also about some other things too. It's about a parent's right to make decisions for their child without government interference. It's about religious freedom without fear of persecution. It's about being able to practice your faith to the death without government OR society interfering. Fundamental rights that people seem to willingly be giving away in order to conform to the collective consciousness. Freedom of speech is okay as long as no one is offended. Freedom of religion is okay as long as no one thinks it's weird or cultish. Freedom to parent your children is okay as long as no one reports you to protective services for spanking them. Freedom to choose your own medical care is okay as long as conventional medicine doesn't disagree too much. Frankly, I'm appalled that the court feels it has the right to intervene here. Frankly, I find this whole damn government becoming more and more tyrannical by the day. Is anyone else out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireflymedic Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I would just be curious what the kid's perspective is. They didnt really elaborate on what he thought - they just said the actions they would take if he decided to fight it. I think he has a say in this as well as the parents. Of course, most kids are going to go with their parents influence, but if they really think he has a chance to live this way, and not the other I think having a sit down with him may be a good thing. He probably understands much more than we think...Whatever the outcome, all will be hurt in one way or another and it will be sad all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Katie, this is hardly the first time a court has stepped in to protect a child from idiot parents. The is plenty of legal presendence in a case like this. Hodgkin's Lymphoma as a 90% cure rate with chemo and radiation, with out them it is less than 5% (assuming that the parents neglect hasn't allowed to cancer to spread). The kid has given his opinion on the matter (verbally since he cannot write) saying that if he is forced to undergo therapy he will kick and punch the providers. It has also been determined that he is unable to give an informed consent/refusal by a court. I'm all for allowing adults to use unproven alternative therapies, it is the chlorine we need in the gene pool. I'm sure the parent's therapy will work for him, but those toxic medicines are just a sham used by those greedy doctors to make money. "She has been treating his cancer with herbal supplements, vitamins, ionized water, and other natural alternatives she learned about on the Internet — despite testimony from five doctors who agreed Daniel needed chemotherapy. Daniel told the judge during closed testimony that he has also been eating “green food” such as broccoli and beans, as well as eggs and fruit." MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30763438/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itku2er Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) I have recieved a couple PMs about what I think of this because I was the one that posted it. My personal thoughts are this Honestly I would give my child every chance at life. I wouldnt take they were dying a written in stone thing. There is always something out there that might save their lives. Yeah it might be selfish but this is your child you should do what it takes to try to save them. Now here is a question: The parnets are denying the care based on religous belief and the use of herbal medicines. Do you think this could be stretched out by a damn good lawyer and the case over turned on the grounds that they were not really denying him treatment just chemo. Cause alot of people are going the "alternative" way with meds only pure things nothing pharmacutical? Edited May 16, 2009 by itku2er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticcare Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I'm sitting here with my blood boiling at the parents in this. I'm sorry but medications were made for a reason and what 13 year old knows about their condition and treatment after only one session of Chemo therapy. WHACK JOBS and cult brain washing. yes Chemo is yucky, yes radiation is not pleasant, but this kid has a huge HUGE chance of survival but no, some whack nuts brainwashed and their kid who can't read apparently, yet has a total understanding of the consequences can say nope? Give me a Fu**ing break! Interpretation and understanding of consequences are not going to be there with this kid, he is only 13 not 31. I actually commend the state, yes there is individual choice but to think some herbs and a song and a dance is going to give your kid a recoverable chance more than the medicine that has been scientifically proven to have a 90-95% success rate, then you need a psych eval and your kids taken away. To me, its like parents not wanting to immunize their children, whilst natural immunity is good etc, but Immunizations were developed for a reason, and the reason we are getting diseases left right and centre and Polio is coming back and a whole heap of others, is because whack job parents are saying "oh its unnatural" bring me these parents and I will happily slap them across the face. My brother is immunodeficient and cannot have live vaccines, the risk of them killing him is to great, parents in the community refused to vaccinate their kids and when the kids got sick with the bugs, it meant my brother had to miss time from school to be away from it, or ended up in hospital sick with acquiring their illnesses. Think your being kind and great to your kids, well think of the others that your hurting. I am not intending to offend anyone directly, but man, this is something that is personal for me, and like I said above, wanna do your herbals, thats fine, dont jepordise your kids though, and dont wanna immunize your kids, thats you own choice, but stay out of mainstream schools, because parents who do that, deny people like my little brother so much and place their own stupidity and brain washing, over others health and safety. Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUSAJenn Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I certainly believe in the value of blended medicine (traditional & alternative) in many situations, and understand the limits of both. The obvious issues of freedom of speech, freedom of religion and parental rights can become very convoluted when dealing with this issue. However, the bottom line is the responsibility of advocating for the rights of the CHILD, not necessarily what the PARENTS believe in. It seems many missed the fact that this child is unable to read, and has learning disabilities. Therefore, his ability to understand his illness and the implications of treatment, or lack thereof, is severely limited. So the responsibility of the parents is to act in the best interest of the CHILD, not necessarily to assert their own religious/political agenda. Obviously their "wholesome" lifestyle choices have not prevented their child from becoming terminally ill, so why would they believe those methods could "cure" their child? I live near a rather large Amish community, so this issue has presented itself numerous times in my region. Most recently, two children were burned severely in a barn fire, and were hidden by the father before EMS arrived so they would not be treated. How any parent can assert that they believe that their "God" wants that for their children is beyond my level of comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireflymedic Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 We had a situation similiar but was related to an EMS response. I work in a very rural area and yes there are a prevalence of snake handling churches and those that believe in faith healing. Had an incident with a child who was bitten, a concerned church member called for EMS for the child, but after arrival, group members refused to allow EMS access to the child as the parents wanted him "faith healed". Took the intervention of state troopers to defuse the situation, and due to the delay the child died. The parents were charged and convicted. As far as alternative therapies - I think they can compliment a traditional medicine therapy very well. Caring for the mind as well as the body is important and if faith provides them a positive attitude to cope with the illness great. Also, the benefits of good nutrition can't be denied - giving the body fuel to help heal itself has it's worth. However, I wouldn't neglect known proven treatments unless all were proven futile after a reasonable attempt. If it were my child, I would be pursuing both ideas simultaneously provided there were no contraindications with the herbs, etc if I felt that strongly about it. I would want them to live and give them every opportunity. As for adults - they are free to make their own decisions and I don't feel we have the ability or should have the ability to step in otherwise. But when children are concerned, it's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUSAJenn Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I would just be curious what the kid's perspective is. They didnt really elaborate on what he thought - they just said the actions they would take if he decided to fight it. I think he has a say in this as well as the parents. Of course, most kids are going to go with their parents influence, but if they really think he has a chance to live this way, and not the other I think having a sit down with him may be a good thing. He probably understands much more than we think...Whatever the outcome, all will be hurt in one way or another and it will be sad all the way around. As a special education teacher, I would have to say that a 13 year old unable to read is quite limited in his ability to understand the ramifications of this situation. If unable to read, it is very likely that his receptive comprehension in relatively low, as well as his expressive ability, so it would be very diffuclt to determine his ability to understand any of this. Even typical teenagers have very little understanding of the permanence of death ~ thus their very irresponsible behaviors such as driving too fast, suicide "attempts" for attention, etc ~ and their immature desire to "live for the moment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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