ERDoc Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 My EMT class was 400 hours long it included anatomy, physiology, human body in health and disease, psychology and health law. All college credits that I put towards my degree. The EMT portion of the class was 4 hours a night two nights a week and six hours on Saturdays. Altogether It took about a year. This was about fifteen years ago. This class has gone by the wayside, they have removed the pre-reqs and dropped the Saturdays. On a side note the pass rate of this class was about 40%. Whats funny is they removed the instructor who was a paramedic with about 20 years experience and a BS in biology, because the pass rate was to low and replaced him with an EMT with no college education and little experience. The pass rate a few years ago was about 100% . Its a joke. American (I'm assuming) education at it's best. Let's not expect more from the students, let's just lower the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchb Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks JPINFV. I see where I went wrong - I was just taught to check for injuries. Who knew you needed a reminder of what to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks JPINFV. I see where I went wrong - I was just taught to check for injuries. Who knew you needed a reminder of what to look for. Strange, I thought the same damn thing when I first heard of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neesie Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just an addition to the DCAP BLS we learned a TIC on the end of that which translates to T- tenderness I- instability C- crepitus With that said, the last time I used that was probably the last day of school 6 years ago.... I have heard our students muttering that to themselves while doing an assessment which almost irritates me. It is a trauma assessment....look for signs of trauma. If you need to figure it out later what letter it fell under then fine, but don't say it out loud! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Of all places to need pneumonics, I just can't see why you need them for trauma. Trauma is so simple a surgeon could do it. Look everywhere and touch everything. Pretty simple. Once you have done that put a tube in every hole and make a few extra. I think that pretty much sums up the treatment of a trauma pt. It is different if you are dealing with a complex medical pt. Sometimes pneumonics can help you remember to think of things that weren't on the top of your differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiebug Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Obviously I need to clarify a couple of things. One: As I stated before, if you are smarter than the average bear (and/or have a background in medicine like the previous poster), then fast track may be for you. It is not, on the other hand, for the average person. Again, the fail/dropout rate testifies to this. Two: DCAP-BTLS as well as the other pneumonics are a foundation on which to build. When you are experienced, you may assess any effective way you choose. As a student/rookie, there must be a standard to go by that ensures you perform to a minimum competency. Agreed? EMT (IV in TN) training is an education. All training is an education. To say that one can be effectively trained to work a massive MVC or an MCI in 18 days is a joke. I for one do not want to be in the same group as the people that take that course. I don't want the public or the medical community to look at me and see that. How could any of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenac Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Obviously I need to clarify a couple of things. One: As I stated before, if you are smarter than the average bear (and/or have a background in medicine like the previous poster), then fast track may be for you. It is not, on the other hand, for the average person. Again, the fail/dropout rate testifies to this. Two: DCAP-BTLS as well as the other pneumonics are a foundation on which to build. When you are experienced, you may assess any effective way you choose. As a student/rookie, there must be a standard to go by that ensures you perform to a minimum competency. Agreed? EMT (IV in TN) training is an education. All training is an education. To say that one can be effectively trained to work a massive MVC or an MCI in 18 days is a joke. I for one do not want to be in the same group as the people that take that course. I don't want the public or the medical community to look at me and see that. How could any of you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonic Pneumonic may refer to: Lung Bubonic plague, known as Pneumonic plague Pneumonic device Someone with Pneumonia Mnemonic's are not required to be a great provider. A basic is a basic is a basic 2 week 120 hour course or 2 year 120 hour course. We are not talking brain surgery. They get the same number of hours training for an MVA, MCI, CVA, TIA, or any of the other medical trauma they will see. They are not educated only trained. Sorry the only reason not to take a 2 week basic course is if you can not absorb material quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Two: DCAP-BTLS as well as the other pneumonics are a foundation on which to build. When you are experienced, you may assess any effective way you choose. As a student/rookie, there must be a standard to go by that ensures you perform to a minimum competency. Agreed? EMT (IV in TN) training is an education. All training is an education. To say that one can be effectively trained to work a massive MVC or an MCI in 18 days is a joke. I for one do not want to be in the same group as the people that take that course. I don't want the public or the medical community to look at me and see that. How could any of you? Wait, you don't want to be lumped into the same group of people that takes a 110 hour course in 18 days, but you're defending the use of a learning device that essentially reminds you of basic trauma injuries? This isn't SAMPLE or OPQRST, or AEIOUTIPS (I have concerns about the last one, but not nearly as huge as the concern I have for providers who use DCAP BTLS) or half a dozen other ones that are/can be useful. Seriously, who is going to sit down and say, "Damn, this patient's leg is sitting at a 90 degree angle, is that important? Should I, ya know, wright it down on my PCR?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Two: DCAP-BTLS as well as the other pneumonics are a foundation on which to build. When you are experienced, you may assess any effective way you choose. As a student/rookie, there must be a standard to go by that ensures you perform to a minimum competency. Agreed? Completely disagreed. That is totally back-asswards. Knowledge and understanding are the foundation upon which your practice should be built. Mnemonics are simply tools with which to help retain that knowledge in an organised fashion long enough to apply it in practice. Mnemonics are not educational learning tools. They are memory training tools. Do not mistake the two. And, as ERDoc already stated, if your education is competent, you shouldn't need DCAPBTLS. It's easier to learn what to look and feel for than it is to remember what DCAPBTLS means. Any instructor teaching that nonsense is probably an idiot with no real understanding of the concepts of formal education. EMT (IV in TN) training is an education. All training is an education. Nonsense. The typical EMT course, where about a year's worth of material is crammed into 120 hours, with most of those hours committed to simple monkey skills, and not a theoretical foundation, cannot possibly be classified as education. It is technical training, and nothing more. To say that one can be effectively trained to work a massive MVC or an MCI in 18 days is a joke. 120 hours is 120 hours, no matter how many days it takes. So TN tacks on a few days of IV training? Big deal. It's still simple monkey skills training that my ten year old sister could master in a day. Let's not get all high and mighty with self importance here. EMT -- IV or otherwise -- is nothing more than very basic and very simple first aid skills training, taught at the same grade 8 level of Boy Scout first aid, and specifically designed to train (not educate) the lowest, blue collar common denominator of society, the volunteer fireman. Considering that very few of those instructing these courses have any advanced education themselves (it's not even required to be an instructor), any attempt to label this process as "education" is simply ignorant. I for one do not want to be in the same group as the people that take that course. I don't want the public or the medical community to look at me and see that. How could any of you? Because again, 120 hours is 120 hours, no matter how you spin it. And trying to claim superiority based upon your 120 hours being dragged out longer than three weeks is a pretty weak point to stand on. You are no better than them. You're just a slower learner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanHarris Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The problem with DCAP-BTLS, is there's a box, that corresponds with a mark, on the testing sheets for any scenario I've done for school at for hiring. So in order to get good grades, you start beating the sheet whether you like to or not and before you know it, you've developed a habit you need to break. Verbalizing and thinking useless crap that you already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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