Advocacy group for keeping fire out of EMS?

[Asblikkie]

You are not going to defeat Fire-Based EMS with an anti whatever compaign or advocacy group. The fragmentation of the Paramedic profession is what has gotten it into the mess it is in. To create lines of division that are even more harsh will not accomplish much for the profession as a whole. For such an organization to be successful you must unite the advocates for EMS in medical terms regardless of where they work.

If one is a Paramedic, whether it is for the city, county, FD or private service, there should be higher minimal education and standards or for professionalism or at least working toward these goals. Some in both the FDs and non-fire services have already achieved this. But, there are also many in private, county/city EMS and Fire based sectors that still promote the warm body idea of professionalism.

The focus at this time should be about education and professionalism. Once those standards are raised we'll see who can maintain to the higher level. Fire may decide if a two year degree was to become mandatory that they may lose interest OR they could use it to their advantage to get more money for education through grants and taxes. Private services that had been milling their own for years could also feel the pinch. Either way, it will be up to the individuals to decide if they have got what it takes to get a degree and be held to a higher standard regardless of where they work. It may discourage many who join the FD just for the benefits if they had to have a two year degree as a Paramedic instead of the 3 month special. It might also discourage the "every FF must be a Paramedic" mentality. For the private sector it might discourage the L&S freaks who have nothing to offer in terms of patient care. Then, we can get back to have only those with an interest in medicine being on the ambulances regardless of what service.

Fantastic post. Well said. IMHO your only hope would be some kind of national board/registry that raises the bar substantially and sets a four year degree as a minimum requirement. Work yourself into a niche and identify that need with the general public. Blaming factions and other services are not going to help ( it helps fire ).

As it stands many people associate fire with EMS, Don't fight it. Make it fight it self. Lobby for higher standards and if they follow suit. Great (it raises the standard and the fire guy will protect his investment with maintaining standards). My feeling would be that many fire dept's would step it up to maintain funding, but many others will not and that will be what the goal is. Now the stage could be set for separate EMS.

The key would be a national standard. A crude but maybe good example would be the auto industry. For years the dealers and manufacturers maintained that only they can maintain proper standards ( Fire dept's). The aftermarket industry responded by forming ASE standards. Selling it to the public as a national standard, equal or better than dealers. It essentially killed the dealers in the service industry. Limiting them to warranty work only and the bulk of the high paying work moving to the aftermarket industry.

The key is the face you put on it to the paying public. And aggressive standard management.

[JTpaintball70]

My classmates have all been brainstorming ideas to approach NM EMS about a standardized AAS requirement for medics statewide. We also have been talking about how to increase professionalism in our chosen career paths. I know all of us would most likely be willing to help any way we could

[WolfmanHarris]

Why not avoid any sort of exclusionary agenda. It's not like there aren't awful non-fire services and providers. I have no issue with any one particular group running EMS provided their service is entirely devoted to the highest level or educated, professional patient care without unnecessary distracting obligations. Unfortunately the fire service tends to find this unworkable with their desire to be full-time fire fighters with job security.

Rather than focus on a provider model, why not advocate for higher standards of education? If education standards are increased such that EMS is not an education committment measured in hours over a few weekends to a couple of months, would not some of the other issues begin to tend to themselves? Essentially, I'm saying you should aim to have EMS providers educate themselves right out of the price range for those that would seek to hold the profession back.

[scope2776]

You are not going to defeat Fire-Based EMS with an anti whatever compaign or advocacy group. The fragmentation of the Paramedic profession is what has gotten it into the mess it is in. To create lines of division that are even more harsh will not accomplish much for the profession as a whole. For such an organization to be successful you must unite the advocates for EMS in medical terms regardless of where they work.

If one is a Paramedic, whether it is for the city, county, FD or private service, there should be higher minimal education and standards or for professionalism or at least working toward these goals. Some in both the FDs and non-fire services have already achieved this. But, there are also many in private, county/city EMS and Fire based sectors that still promote the warm body idea of professionalism.

The focus at this time should be about education and professionalism. Once those standards are raised we'll see who can maintain to the higher level. Fire may decide if a two year degree was to become mandatory that they may lose interest OR they could use it to their advantage to get more money for education through grants and taxes. Private services that had been milling their own for years could also feel the pinch. Either way, it will be up to the individuals to decide if they have got what it takes to get a degree and be held to a higher standard regardless of where they work. It may discourage many who join the FD just for the benefits if they had to have a two year degree as a Paramedic instead of the 3 month special. It might also discourage the "every FF must be a Paramedic" mentality. For the private sector it might discourage the L&S freaks who have nothing to offer in terms of patient care. Then, we can get back to have only those with an interest in medicine being on the ambulances regardless of what service.

Well said, well said. Yeah that totally makes sense. I wholeheartedly agree.

There certainly are substandard ambulance companies. And what our profession needs is less fragmentation.

I just get so fired up when I read articles or hear news about a fire department taking over a successful or excellent ambulance organization and turning it into a mess. I just wish there was some way to counter all the propaganda coming from the IAFF and other organizations about fire based EMS.

[AnthonyM83]

Absolutely agree with VentMedic. Unite in medical terms and make that core very strong. Recruit shakers and movers. Gain influence. Then raise standards to point that only those who embrace EMS as their main profession will go through the rising hoops.

Long-term solution...though can't take forever to do it, as fire-based EMS seems to be growing. Perhaps the new national committee and national website would be a first preliminary step in the right direction...as far as strengthening field.

[Steve Whitehead]

I think your suggested advocacy group has some flaws. Some have been stated well by previous posters some have not. You would do well to simply take the good advice already posted but I’ll add mine as well.

1.) Mother Teresa once said that she would never attend an anti-war rally. She then added that if you ever have a peace rally she’d be happy to come. As previously said, advocate for something not against something. Advocate for good patient care. But then you’re going to need to get over the fact that in some instances your group may end up advocating for fire EMS and against private EMS. Your own personal biases may prevent you from taking that leap.

2.) You’re trying to apply regional ideas to a national scale. In some regions and communities fire based EMS may be the best thing for the community. My department took over EMS when the private provider gave 90 days notice and up and left in 1995. Before being considered as a paramedic candidate for my department I endured an 8 hour medical assessment day that had a 70% fail rate. This process couldn’t compare to any private service I ever worked for and today I work with some of the most talented medics I’ve ever met (as well as a lot of good EMTs). Where would our community fall in your anti-fire agenda? If you advocate for the patient, then what would you suggest is best for the citizens of Parker CO?

3.) There is good medicine everywhere and there is bad medicine everywhere. I applaud your desire to see good medicine continue and bad medicine go away. In that effort we are fellow soldiers. I will fight with you till my dying breath my friend. I think the first step might be to recognize that the dividing line between good for the patient and bad for the patient does not run cleanly through fire vs. private EMS. Could you bring yourself to see a firefighter / paramedic standing next to you and fighting the same fight? Or does my allegiance to the honor of the fire service preclude you from fighting with me? If you put the patient first in your agenda we will go farther. Good luck to you.