Jury finds EMT unit negligent - Lazy or Not their fault?

[spenac]

Did these guys act as they should have?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20..._negligent.html

Jury finds EMT unit negligent

But it awarded no damages for failure to break into the home of a dying woman.

By Kathleen Brady Shea

Inquirer Staff Writer

Gasping for air on the 911 recording, the 45-year-old Chester County woman said she was having difficulty breathing.

Early on Feb. 22, 2004, Judy Pomerleau of Lower Oxford Township told a 911 operator that she had a history of heart and asthma problems but would try to unlock her door. "Oh, Lord," she is heard repeating.

Pomerleau never made it to the door, and yesterday a Chester County Court civil jury concluded that Southern Chester County Emergency Medical Services was negligent for failing to break into the home. However, the panel decided that the negligence did not play a substantial role in causing Pomerleau's death and awarded no damages to her estate.

Pomerleau's relatives, represented by attorney Joseph P. Green Jr., sued the agency in June 2005, alleging that the haste of emergency responders in leaving Pomerleau's residence when no one answered the door or telephone contributed to her death.

Defense attorney Brooks Roderick Foland argued that Francis "Jody" Schiavelli III, the lead paramedic, responded appropriately because the 911 call-taker did not tell the dispatcher that Pomerleau was going to try to unlock the door.

"There's no duty to find a person under the law. There's a duty to act reasonably," Foland said in his closing argument.

Foland said medical evidence suggested that Pomerleau, who died of respiratory arrest, would not have survived even with treatment.

Green countered that Pomerleau had "a right to fight for her life" that was denied by the premature departure of emergency workers, who testified that they could not see inside the house.

About an hour after emergency workers left the residence, Pomerleau's nephew, Kevin Tabor, came home and found his aunt lifeless on the floor, the phone clutched in her hand. After a second 911 call, she was taken to Southern Chester County Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead at 2:20 a.m.

Responding to the verdict, Robert Hotchkiss Jr., chief executive officer of Southern Chester County Medical Services, disagreed with the jury's contention that the agency was negligent.

"We believe our paramedic was following the protocols," he said. "We see tragedy every day; this was a tragic case."

[akflightmedic]

My opinion on this is yes they were indeed wrong. Not wrong to the point where they should be sued, but definitely wrong in how they went about this call.

I can only speak from past experience, but when dispatched to a house where we could not gain access, it was quite simple to ask dispatch if they still had the caller on the line or was it an open line. If the call was neither of those, we would ask dispatch to ring back the caller and we would first wait to see if they answered and second listen for ringing to ensure we had the right house.

The fact remains, SOMEONE called 911 and said they couldn't breathe, so until I pacify my innate curiosity of finding out who this someone is, I am not leaving. If we hear the phone ringing or have an open line, it is at that time that the PD would be involved. If you need to make forcible entry, it is wise to never do these things without them. Dogs, guns, psychos, these are all very real and very possible threats when making a forced entry.

I would go from window to window and see if there was anything of interest. Might see a foot or hand barely extending into view or see a person splayed out on the floor. If those signs are present, then I would make a calculated decision based on the facts known and the current situation as to whether or not it is safe to make an entry or wait until PD arrives. No two scenes are alike, hence there is no black or white answer to this scenario.

I feel that by them clearing the scene and not taking a few extra steps to ensure there was no patient, that they were wrong in their duty. Now according to the law, they did "follow the protocols", so they are in the clear, but in my tiny bubble they have failed.

[AnthonyM83]

I don't know about legally wrong, but I'd say ethically wrong.

You get a call for short of breath from the patient (not third party), you respond promptly to correct address, no answer at the door. Use your head, if it's severe enough how would they get to the door? What's normally done in their service when this happens.

I would like to hear their side. Maybe they had extra info or were following a policy or were directed by their supervisors. Don't know, but sounds pretty dumb with the info the article gave...

[mcmikeguy]

I have forced entry several times, sometimes I have found a patient, sometimes a body, sometimes no one home, and one time a vacant house that was about to go on the market. I kicked doors in, had fire or PD force their way in, I even took out a window a/c unit and climbed in the window (trick for later reference, just don't push it in and have it land on your patient). Not once have I ever heard "Well why did you have have to break the door?" Nor have I ever had boss say "Did you have to break the door in?" and they would have said something if it cost them a single penny. Has any one ever gotten in to more trouble than they couldn't handle for breaking into home with good intent after looking for an alternative, especially with PD present? Isn't all the forced entries you have made and were wrong worth the times you needed to do it? I always thought that was part of the job. It seems it was more trouble to not kick the door in.

[Just Plain Ruff]

i had a patient who called 911 with short of breath.

we got there and there was no one to answer the door.

The fire guys were all ready to break the door down.

Line was still open

Police refused to allow us to break entry because they didn't think that the patient was still there as there were no cars in the driveway but one in the garage. They said that they patient must have gotten a ride.

We waited a few more minutes and I went next door to a neighbor and was able to get a key.

I got in the house and found GUESS WHAT???? A lady in cardiac arrest. She died.

An investigation ensued and the two officers who initially refused to allow us to break in were reprimanded based on the fact that the line was open and they dragged their hands on it.

I cannot be sure if she would have been alive for us to help if the 15 minute delay would not have happened but maybe not who knows but it was one time I wish I had been more forceful.

[tamaith]

i agree i would like to hear their story. also get the police there to assist you to gain entrance.

[CTXMEDIC]

I can only speak from past experience, but when dispatched to a house where we could not gain access, it was quite simple to ask dispatch if they still had the caller on the line or was it an open line. If the call was neither of those, we would ask dispatch to ring back the caller and we would first wait to see if they answered and second listen for ringing to ensure we had the right house.

The fact remains, SOMEONE called 911 and said they couldn't breathe, so until I pacify my innate curiosity of finding out who this someone is, I am not leaving. If we hear the phone ringing or have an open line, it is at that time that the PD would be involved. If you need to make forcible entry, it is wise to never do these things without them. Dogs, guns, psychos, these are all very real and very possible threats when making a forced entry.

What he said. I dont think they should have been sued and i hope theyre still employed. per policy, we dont bust doors in, the cops and fire kids do. more often than not, the fire kids. Are there other avenues this crew could have taken, sure. In todays sue happy society, noone is to take personal responsibility, its ALWAYS the other guys fault. ESPECIALLY if their pockets are deeper than yours.

[Chief1C]

The Penna. State Police usually frown upon EMS, blindly breaking into homes. Suppose the woman was passed out from a gas leak? Boom. Or it was a false call, and the caller had a gun? Dead.

I would have had the dispatcher confirm the address, and called the state or local police to investigate. Make sure the cops know that you do plan on going in, but you want them in front to either take fire/return fire; or if anything.. be what granny's doberman attacks first. But I do not believe that they should have just broken down the door. Getting into the habit of doing that is bad juju.

But I agree, it needs to be confirmed. Probably everyone has had a call with similar details. I had one, lifeline call, no answer on call back. Terrible storm, the power was out, no lights period. We called for the state police, they wouldn't come for whatever reason. So, I used a wooden club, we always tell the inspector that we have it for "knocking the tires". :wink: Broke a little window next to the front door, and let ourselves in yelling "____ Ambulance" profusely. Here an elderly woman was in the shower, when the lights went out. She got out, missed the mat, slipped and fell. Had a femur fracture. We offered to pay for the window, but she was just glad we found her.

[Richard B the EMT]

Sometime between 1985 and the FDNY/EMS merger, a woman called 9-1-1 for herself, for an asthma attack. Like the woman in the OP quoted story, she collapsed trying to get to the door. The crew advised EMD nobody answered the door, EMD called back her number (the crew heard the phone ringing through the door), got the answering machine, left a message that we had been there, and the crew made it an unfounded, and went back available.

The woman's family found both the corpse and the message the next day.

Following that incident, the NYPD will be summoned to both do the forced entry (even if FDNY actually forces the door open), and security on the opened house or apartment. If a patient is found, we the EMS do our thang, pronounce as a DOA, otherwise, we advise EMD that the place is unoccupied and go back available.

[Richard B the EMT]

PS, the crew and EMD folks involved were declared not negligent, but the operating policy changed to what I described.