Asysin2leads Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Timmy, I know I'm missing something here, and I'd love to engage in your discussion about euthanasia, but first you need to clarify what "I nursed someone to death" means. Not for nothing, but my attorney tells me if I'm charged as an accessory one more time I'm in real trouble. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 Timmy, I know I'm missing something here, and I'd love to engage in your discussion about euthanasia, but first you need to clarify what "I nursed someone to death" means. Not for nothing, but my attorney tells me if I'm charged as an accessory one more time I'm in real trouble. :-D lol! I’ll elaborate just for you asy, casue your special I nursed this lady while she died from natural causes. Thanks everyone for your input. That doctrine proved to be an interesting read, thanks Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Timmy, I know I'm missing something here, and I'd love to engage in your discussion about euthanasia, but first you need to clarify what "I nursed someone to death" means. I've recently been on the receiving end of that. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock_shoes Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 There is no dignity in end stage cancer, aids, or alzheimers. Who are we to deny these people the right to die with what dignity they can have on their own terms? Having read both Wendy and Mateo's articles, my opinion has not been swayed. Any of the rest of you who read them may have noticed that the majority of opposition came as a result of religious beliefs. Religious beliefs have no place in the political realm. The fact that it is up for debate is a prime example of the very poor job we as human beings have done in separating church and state. Feel free to try and sway me from my standpoint. I'm more than willing to engage in the debate and don't harbour hard feelings just because of a difference in opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eydawn Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 My basis is not religious, although my own moral beliefs indubitably influence my position. There is indeed a dignity to life, no matter how taxed or stretched or contaminated that life may be. That is my position in a nutshell. Do I think it is wrong to bar someone from ending their life intentionally? Is there a difference between allowing someone to stop life-saving drugs and allowing them to take a lethal dose of something? I'm not sure. But where I have serious problems with end of life ethics is where *someone else* makes the decision for the person in question as far as intentional death goes. There's a difference between not resuscitating the 98 year old for the 5th time and intentionally administering lethal doses of medication to them. While you as an individual would say that "I would not choose to live and I would choose to actively end my life if put into such and such condition" I do not feel that you can make that judgment for another person. And if you say there is no dignity, no lesson to be learned, no value to experience gained from end stage cancer or Alzheimer's or AIDS, I ask you- have you ever spent time with someone in that stage? I mean not just intermittent, brief instances of association... but really spent time with them? People who are put into extraordinary circumstances like that often gain knowledge or self-insight. Doesn't happen all the time... but just saying. This is an issue that will almost always remain divided. I do not feel that euthanasia is beneficial. I feel that it places life in lower regard than pain. Once you establish that it is acceptable to end life based on certain standards of pain or suffering, you open the way for people to re-negotiate those standards (which they have in Europe in the Netherlands) and you teach society as a whole that it is preferable to end pain, rather than to confront it and bear with it as long as life is granted to you. Did anyone notice how suicide rates have jumped in the Netherlands since the official institution of euthanasia policies? Just curious... Wendy CO EMT-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock_shoes Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 My basis is not religious, although my own moral beliefs indubitably influence my position. There is indeed a dignity to life, no matter how taxed or stretched or contaminated that life may be. That is my position in a nutshell. Do I think it is wrong to bar someone from ending their life intentionally? Is there a difference between allowing someone to stop life-saving drugs and allowing them to take a lethal dose of something? I'm not sure. But where I have serious problems with end of life ethics is where *someone else* makes the decision for the person in question as far as intentional death goes. These decisions should be made by the patient either verbally at the time or through the use of an advance directive similar to a DNR. There's a difference between not resuscitating the 98 year old for the 5th time and intentionally administering lethal doses of medication to them. While you as an individual would say that "I would not choose to live and I would choose to actively end my life if put into such and such condition" I do not feel that you can make that judgment for another person. Again I don’t advocate someone else making these decisions. I advocate the patient making these decisions. Think of it as a part of your will. And if you say there is no dignity, no lesson to be learned, no value to experience gained from end stage cancer or Alzheimer's or AIDS, I ask you- have you ever spent time with someone in that stage? I mean not just intermittent, brief instances of association... but really spent time with them? People who are put into extraordinary circumstances like that often gain knowledge or self-insight. Doesn't happen all the time... but just saying. I have in fact done exactly that. While there are insights to be gained I firmly believe that people deserve the right to end there lives in these instances. If these people are going to gain some form of insight they will gain it prior to taking their own lives. This is an issue that will almost always remain divided. I do not feel that euthanasia is beneficial. I feel that it places life in lower regard than pain. Once you establish that it is acceptable to end life based on certain standards of pain or suffering, you open the way for people to re-negotiate those standards (which they have in Europe in the Netherlands) and you teach society as a whole that it is preferable to end pain, rather than to confront it and bear with it as long as life is granted to you. Did anyone notice how suicide rates have jumped in the Netherlands since the official institution of euthanasia policies? Just curious... Wendy CO EMT-B You’re quite correct that the issue will remain divided. It’s much like the abortion debate in that respect. You’re also correct that once standards are put in place those standards will be challenged. The fact that something will be challenged does not indicate that it isn’t of value. On the note of an increase in suicide rates in the Netherlands. Is this increase related or does it come as a result of other extraneous factors? Just as a side note I also believe people have the right to fight for survival as long as they chose. I’m not advocating that people make one choice or the other. I’m advocating that they be given that choice. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doczilla Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 "Are you kidding me? I'd kill you for a Klondike bar." -Achmed the Dead Terrorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsadin Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I've spent a lot of time with people in end-stage diseases. Let the ones who want to fight, fight. Let the ones who wish to die, die. If I get to the point that I can't do anything but lie in bed, be a burden to my family emotionally and financially and have nothing to look forward to but my ultimate death....let me go swiftly into that good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireflymedic Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Having watched several people literally go into a meaningless existance when their family members sit there and say "they would never have wanted to live like this" having people change their diapers daily, not able to function, exist, communicate, understand yes I can see where euthanasia would be preferable. However, I do agree it is something that should be decided on early in life and not a matter of family or caregiver convenience. If it is me in those shoes though, if I can't be who I am please let go peacefully, swifty, and quietly without struggle, fear, and pain. I've seen numerous animals euthanized, and well we euthanize prisoners here in the US and I have yet to hear anyone say that it was not a humane form of death. They may not agree with it, but it IS humane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I've seen numerous animals euthanized, and well we euthanize prisoners here in the US and I have yet to hear anyone say that it was not a humane form of death. LOL! You haven't been paying attention to the Supreme Court briefs filed weekly on behalf of convicts claiming that lethal injection is cruel and unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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