Changes to the ACP Licensing Process in BC

[rock_shoes]

In the last while the Advanced Care Paramedic licensing process has changed significantly in BC. The move has been made from a 3 week(I think that's how long it was) on-car licensing exam to a 6 month mentorship program to attain an unrestricted ACP license.

Personally I think this is a giant leap in the right direction. It basically amounts to an extra 6 months practicum in a targeted EMS system. Plus it's a paid full time process. I pray it's still in place by the time I make it to the ACP level of practice.

Thoughts and opinions from the local crew on this change would be great to hear. Let her rip fellows.

[vs-eh?]

Three weeks was way to short. Six months full time is a touch long in my opinion. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just long. I believe the CMA standard is a 40 (maybe 50) shifts precepting ACP. BCAS is basically doubling this. Most of Ontario does the 40 (or 50) shifts, while my service does 60. We also have 40 shifts of consolidation (supposed to work with another ACP) following successful completion of final ACP testing (OSCE).

The weird thing is the BCAS requires this 6 month mentorship for out-of-province ACP candidates regardless of experience working as an ACP. Again, not necessarily a hugely bad thing (you have to get to know the system), but it may become a little tedious being "mentored" by someone for an extended period of time after your own X antonymous experience.

I've heard I may have to redo my applications to BCAS again (I was granted equivalence) because I've procrastinated for so long? Man that may suck, guess I should give them a call...

PS - I have heard that BC ACP's are basically not supposed to do any lifting. Is that true? The whole white shift uniform thing may still be balanced against other things if the former is true...

[fireflightmedic1]

call me the dumb American but can we explain the levels of care and scope of practice for each up there. I am a current NREMT-I99 and GA cardiac Tech. To explain cardiac tech i went thru paramedic school but tested out after cardio. so i am about 250 hrs short of my full blown medic. in fact i am one of the last ct's here. But please do explain My fiance' is from Maine up around the border and we might actually move up that far and if i can figure out if i have some sort of reciprocity after paramedic school to Canada to work. Heard great things about the system up there.

Thanks

[northernmedic]

Mentorship is not the same as preceptorship. You still do about 1000 hours of preceptorship on a 3 man car as part of your ACP diploma (64 credits). Yes we do plenty of lifting, especially where I work since there's a lot of old multistory buildings without elevators. Don't worry VS-eh we'll give you a navy blue fleece to cover up your white shirt :twisted:

[tniuqs]

The weird thing is the BCAS requires this 6 month mentorship for out-of-province ACP candidates regardless of experience working as an ACP. Again, not necessarily a hugely bad thing (you have to get to know the system), but it may become a little tedious being "mentored" by someone for an extended period of time after your own X antonymous experience.

vs-eh Don't you mean get to know an antiquated system ? ^ months you have got to be kidding me, does human physiology and "modern" protocol change THAT much .... like when you change your watch ???

Not only is this the most retro/ stupidest thing that I have ever heard of lately, but it is also against the national agreement on mobility of labour, can you believe that this really true .... ah socialism, labour and unions at their finest.

"We" aka PAC seriously need a damn good court challenge with this one ! If one is a PCP/ACP/CCP graduating out of any CMA school anywhere in this country (with a valid practice permit from another province compliant and with National Objectives then there should be no barriers to mobility at all ! well, other that a 2 page exam on the minor legal differences.

Another point is that this "requirement" is only if one wishes to work for BCAS ... I am not positive but if one is providing services to private , say an industrial site it is of no consequence as one is operating under the Medical Directors licensure and insurance.

I wonder how with the very limited numbers of real ACP's in the province that they can possibly think they can cover the 2010 upcoming Olympics, besides the fact that only a few large cities actually provide advanced life support ... sheesh, is it not in the best interests of the public / tax payers that ACLS should be implimented asap.... just look to remote areas and most with limited hospital services as well.

BC I invite you to join the 21st Century of Health Care!!!

ps the title PARAMEDIC is not protected in BC therfore anyone can call themselves a PARAMEDIC FA ..... indicating first aider ...with a whole 80 hour course.

ps there is another term that I can come up with F*** ALL !

In closing is there any wonder just why national reciprocity is stalled ... good grief.

[tniuqs]

Mentorship is not the same as preceptorship. You still do about 1000 hours of preceptorship on a 3 man car as part of your ACP diploma (64 credits). Yes we do plenty of lifting, especially where I work since there's a lot of old multistory buildings without elevators. Don't worry VS-eh we'll give you a navy blue fleece to cover up your white shirt :twisted:

I already have an ACP diploma their northmedic, and have flown multiple missons over a period of many years into BC to take intubated, ventilated, chemically paralized, polytrauma, cardiac failure, paeds, high risk Mats (+++++) oh yea and Septic Shock into the Alberta System when the HOSPITALS can not provide needed care...gimme a break 6 months of mentorship ?

So just what is the difference in definition between a mentor and preceptor anyways ?

Should not experiance, education and experiance play into some factors, the unions do respect "seniority" do they not? and with ACPs in high demand, so just how many communities actually provide ACLS ?

Its not like taking a job away from a unionized up the ying yang BC ferries worker is it?

cheers :twisted:

ps is the legislature in BC looking to introduce allowing private ambulance operations ... gasp!

[northernmedic]

Well as per normal this has quickly degenerated into name calling and personal attacks. Anyone wishes any info feel free to PM me as is my normal practice. I will no longer be posting on this thread.

[rock_shoes]

I have to agree with northernmedic. I was looking for open conversation on the advantages and disadvantages of this move. I wasn't looking for a free-for-all excuse to lay into my home province's system.

I like the move from the point of view of someone looking to become an ACP. Besides even if you are an ACP coming in from another province this is not something that's going to stop you. What it will force people to do is spend 6 months working their way into the system with the help of someone experienced within it. Those people will be paid full time throughout the entire process.

BC has fewer ACP's in a targeted system. Do we need more? You bet. Those facts are why those that we do have need time to become acclimatized to the pressure that will inevitably be placed on them.

[tniuqs]

I have to agree with northernmedic. I was looking for open conversation on the advantages and disadvantages of this move. I wasn't looking for a free-for-all excuse to lay into my home province's system

.

Well you said let her rip, I have complied granted albeit "a tad sarcastic" but please note from my multiple posts regarding Alberta there is a great deal to modify here as well. This challenge was presented by yourself, so if you wish to take your baseball (as a 12 year old playing in the park) and just go home, so be it, northmedic you have disapointed me with you commentary, facing the reality sometimes is harsh.

My BC friends can you not clearly see that the national goal of reciprocity has taken a huge step backwards and simply based on a territorial move by the union motivated "old boys club" but a 6 month probationary period is not cost effective or a means to address the under staffing of ALS service in BC nor recruits the best possible candidate, (in passing one currently has to rewrite the exams as well, I think this curious point got left out (added for thoughness at this juncture)

Is it any wonder that BCs attempts to recruit experience ALS providers out of Alberta failed miserably ? BC did not receive the best applicants and it is well known to Alberta Paramedics the huge dominance of Union in the BCAS system, you received shiny noobies is all as applicants, your managment was trying to gain some experiance from other systems, your union failed you to develop the practice of Paramedicine in my view.

So for discussion purposes even the if one say a 10 year ACP veteran does cross your border, this individual may get bumped into a part time or even casual position, if a brand new graduate from the Justice Institute and a BCAS employee, say for 3 years as a PCP everything is based on seniority ... nothing else, this is exactly what is stopping someone from another province !

I like the move from the point of view of someone looking to become an ACP. Besides even if you are an ACP coming in from another province this is not something that's going to stop you. What it will force people to do is spend 6 months working their way into the system with the help of someone experienced within it. Those people will be paid full time throughout the entire process.

Why not step into the position of an ACP (or CCP for that matter) tell me an ACP Paramedic from T.O. or Calgary needs mentoring in the ways of a large metropolis, the medical provisions of care do not change, and your entirely missing the point! It's just geography and administration and most easily accomplished in an orientation process and "of course" with assistance from your partner, but staffing a unit with 3 people, once again is not cost effective or best use of experianced resources, your comment can be easily construed as condescending and continues too.

BC has fewer ACP's in a targeted system. Do we need more? You bet. Those facts are why those that we do have need time to become acclimatized to the pressure that will inevitably be placed on them.

Ok I will bite: just what is a targeted system ? and acclimatize to the pressure ??? Is working DT Vancouver any different than working DT Toronto, or Edmonton or NYC for that matter... tell me call volume and types of calls vary that much ?

THE PROTECTION of TITLES Legislatively:

I was in not so distant past influenced by others that using the term Paramedic was just confusing the general populous, in fact after spending time in other provinces / states and territories where there is very little zero protection of Title.... the general consensus of medical staff i.e. MDs and RNs based on so many other dubious "Paramedics" in just receiving report or transporting people from rural/remote areas, the RNs would immediately turn to the RN member of the flight crew quite humerus at the time as was the flight team leader.

So why you ask do I fire the cannons ?

So here is a little story that motivated me/hugely annoyed me (you choose)

As I was having a chat in a coffee shop in a very northern community in Canada and through normal process of discussions I informed a fellow that I was a Paramedic ... HEY said I am TOO ! from BC, but I also work in a Oilfield camp in housekeeping as well? This same scenario was repeated in a period of 2 weeks more than 5 occasions, can one not clearly see that this Paramedic FA is not only not a professional but misrepresent, and disrespect all of us that aspire to making Paramedicine a true profession. I worked damn hard to obtain and maintain my status to be lumped with a first aider ?, is it any wonder why I am a bit opinionated and jaded, I think not I have good personal evidence that this path we should not follow.

cheers

ps Please remember a strong opposition is essential in any GOOD democracy, the positive with the BC EMS system is that is considered and funded as part of Health Care System as opposed to the bastard son of Health Care in the Alberta EMS System ... not based on possible revinue generated or municipal grants.