Pre-arrival pt. contact

[unknown]

Huh? How was I giving dispatchers a hard time? :?

It would be helpful because dispatchers can't tell us everything. They can't convey to us the tone of the call, if we're stepping into a full arrest situation with five family members all screaming at each other during the call. Sure, we need to be prepared regardless, but we need to be prepared for most things regardless. It's still nice to get a head's up.

At least in my area, we use the EMD system. Our dispatchers often times tell us the age and gender of the patient, the response code and the chief complaint. Sometimes they'll even forget to tell us the age and gender. Sometimes I'll go back and look up a call only to see helpful location info in the call notes that was never relayed to us.

It would be nice to know if the chest pain call we're going on is a "delta response" because the first party caller says he's not breathing normally or because it's a third party caller who says that the pt is altered.

With EMD, they're apparently not supposed to downgrade response levels. The other day a call came out as a delta response for chest pain and then in the middle of the call they figure out that it's an 8yo A&O with abd pain x 2 hours ago. We never got that info, and they sent fire because it came out as chest pain. Yesterday, I went to another delta response for chest pain which turned out to be chronic tingling in the extremities. I went to a shark bite call once involving an 8yo, we were never told it was a ped. That would have been nice to know. Same thing the other day with a seizure. Second floor of an apartment building. Would have been nice to know so we could bring the broselow.

Two shifts ago, we were sent to a pregnancy that turned out to be a domestic. I talked to the calltaker afterwards and she thought the caller started acting kind of odd in the middle of the call, but otherwise didn't think anything of it. Maybe if we heard the call, we could have picked up on it as well and requested PD while we were still en route.

A few shifts ago, we got a 911 hangup. Only info we got was that some lady called, said she ran out of her meds, and hung up. Dispatch acted surprised when I asked if police were en route and if we needed to stage. I don't know if this is a psych patient and neither did dispatch apparently, but maybe if I heard what little they heard I could understand why they didn't think police were necessary.

These are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head. I realize dispatch can only work with what info they get, which may or may not be accurate. But you're really challenging the idea that being able to listen to these calls might just be helpful every now and then? Of course it would be nice to hear the information first hand instead of just getting a little bit of second-hand info.

Patrick- What you need to do is spend a week in the Comm Center hooked up to your dispatcher, listening to each call, every word and being apart of the setting as the crews get toned out. You truly can not judge these situations until your on the other end and just a couple of hours in dispatch isnt going to give you the full effect either.

I can't tell you how many calls I get- caller is frantic telling me a,b,c is wrong with d,e,f patient only for my med crew to arrive on scene and discover that all along it is 1,2,3 wrong with the 4,5,6 patient. Complete oposites almost. THANK Goodness for recorded lines! You can not argue with a recorded line So I have the ability to listen, relisten and get my facts straight and YOU can not argue with me and tell me I am wrong- YOU also can not try to tell me you where never given this information (which is a common complaint from crews)

I get my stuff in order- YOU as a crew member just have to remember TEAM work is key we are all in this together!

[aussiephil]

How would that be helpful....

give your damn dispatchers a break for goshs sake!!!

Well said brent. We tend to forget that we are dispatched on the information provided to dispatch. That information is then relayed nto us by PROFESSIONALS.

Lets not forget that people who work on road are not the only professionals. 95% of calls that come in are different to what is stated. How many patients do you take to hospital & have asked how many times in the past they have cad chest pain with a reply of NIL only to find that this is a hypertensive pt with Angina Pectoris? Does that make you any less professional because you have failed to gain that small, but significant & relevant piece of information? No, it highlights the lack of understandiong that the general public have about what Paramedics (dictionary definition - a person who is trained to assist a physician or to give first aid or other health care in the absence of a physician, often as part of a police, rescue, or firefighting squad.) are able to do, the knowledge they have, or the training they have undertaken.

Please respect the fact that dispatch work with the information they recieve & have a unique job. They are not there just for you & to want to talk to the pt prior to arrival is a mere waste of resources & ties up a line that could be better served elsewhere

[brentoli]

It would be helpful because dispatchers can't tell us everything. They can't convey to us the tone of the call, if we're stepping into a full arrest situation with five family members all screaming at each other during the call. Sure, we need to be prepared regardless, but we need to be prepared for most things regardless. It's still nice to get a head's up.

Then you need new dispatchers. Sorry. Tell your supervisors the problem you are having.

At least in my area, we use the EMD system. Our dispatchers often times tell us the age and gender of the patient, the response code and the chief complaint. Sometimes they'll even forget to tell us the age and gender. Sometimes I'll go back and look up a call only to see helpful location info in the call notes that was never relayed to us.

See above.

It would be nice to know if the chest pain call we're going on is a "delta response" because the first party caller says he's not breathing normally or because it's a third party caller who says that the pt is altered.

Explain what that is suppoed to mean?

With EMD, they're apparently not supposed to downgrade response levels. The other day a call came out as a delta response for chest pain and then in the middle of the call they figure out that it's an 8yo A&O with abd pain x 2 hours ago. We never got that info, and they sent fire because it came out as chest pain. Yesterday, I went to another delta response for chest pain which turned out to be chronic tingling in the extremities. I went to a shark bite call once involving an 8yo, we were never told it was a ped. That would have been nice to know. Same thing the other day with a seizure. Second floor of an apartment building. Would have been nice to know so we could bring the broselow.

Ever tell your supervisors about these problems?

Two shifts ago, we were sent to a pregnancy that turned out to be a domestic. I talked to the calltaker afterwards and she thought the caller started acting kind of odd in the middle of the call, but otherwise didn't think anything of it. Maybe if we heard the call, we could have picked up on it as well and requested PD while we were still en route.

I doubt you would have picked it up, you have less experience then she does, but once again, supervisor?

A few shifts ago, we got a 911 hangup. Only info we got was that some lady called, said she ran out of her meds, and hung up. Dispatch acted surprised when I asked if police were en route and if we needed to stage. I don't know if this is a psych patient and neither did dispatch apparently, but maybe if I heard what little they heard I could understand why they didn't think police were necessary.

Sounds like an agency problem. We never send EMS on a 911H.

These are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head. I realize dispatch can only work with what info they get, which may or may not be accurate. But you're really challenging the idea that being able to listen to these calls might just be helpful every now and then? Of course it would be nice to hear the information first hand instead of just getting a little bit of second-hand info.

Yes I am. Unless you have sat at a dispatch console, you don't know the questions to ask, the protcols to follow, and you have alot more that should be on your mind then listening to a 5 or 10 min phone call. Belive it or not alot of times 911 is on the line with the caller until you get into the driveway.

[unknown]

Yes I am. Unless you have sat at a dispatch console, you don't know the questions to ask, the protcols to follow, and you have alot more that should be on your mind then listening to a 5 or 10 min phone call. Belive it or not alot of times 911 is on the line with the caller until you get into the driveway.

You better believe it. AND we pass along any new happenings as WE get the information!

[PatrickW]

Patrick- What you need to do is spend a week in the Comm Center hooked up to your dispatcher, listening to each call, every word and being apart of the setting as the crews get toned out. You truly can not judge these situations until your on the other end and just a couple of hours in dispatch isnt going to give you the full effect either.

I can't tell you how many calls I get- caller is frantic telling me a,b,c is wrong with d,e,f patient only for my med crew to arrive on scene and discover that all along it is 1,2,3 wrong with the 4,5,6 patient. Complete oposites almost. THANK Goodness for recorded lines! You can not argue with a recorded line So I have the ability to listen, relisten and get my facts straight and YOU can not argue with me and tell me I am wrong- YOU also can not try to tell me you where never given this information (which is a common complaint from crews)

I get my stuff in order- YOU as a crew member just have to remember TEAM work is key we are all in this together!

I understand this, and I am not trying to knock dispatchers. I have spent more than a few hours in dispatch listening to calls and watching how they work. To be honest, dispatch intrigues me. When I finish school I would not be opposed to going to train and work as a dispatcher part time.

Again, I understand dispatchers do the best they do with what they are given. I have no problem with dispatchers except for the few times that they withhold pertinent information that they DO have (and I have seen the call log/notes to know that). Yes, I realize this is a dispatch issue but "they are doing their best" and it is rare, anyway.

Well said brent. We tend to forget that we are dispatched on the information provided to dispatch. That information is then relayed nto us by PROFESSIONALS.

Lets not forget that people who work on road are not the only professionals. 95% of calls that come in are different to what is stated. How many patients do you take to hospital & have asked how many times in the past they have cad chest pain with a reply of NIL only to find that this is a hypertensive pt with Angina Pectoris? Does that make you any less professional because you have failed to gain that small, but significant & relevant piece of information? No, it highlights the lack of understandiong that the general public have about what Paramedics (dictionary definition - a person who is trained to assist a physician or to give first aid or other health care in the absence of a physician, often as part of a police, rescue, or firefighting squad.) are able to do, the knowledge they have, or the training they have undertaken.

Please respect the fact that dispatch work with the information they recieve & have a unique job. They are not there just for you & to want to talk to the pt prior to arrival is a mere waste of resources & ties up a line that could be better served elsewhere

I'm going to have to assume that this was not in response to my post, unless you didn't read my post at all. I don't see how you could have read my posts and still come to the conclusion that I advocate being able to talk to the patients, I just said it would be helpful to hear the 911 calls. The dispatcher's job would not change one bit.

Then you need new dispatchers. Sorry. Tell your supervisors the problem.

I doubt you would have picked it up, you have less experience then she does, but once again, supervisor?

Sounds like an agency problem. We never send EMS on a 911H.

Yes I am. Unless you have sat at a dispatch console, you don't know the questions to ask, the protcols to follow, and you have alot more that should be on your mind then listening to a 5 or 10 min phone call. Belive it or not alot of times 911 is on the line with the caller until you get into the driveway.

Ok, now I'm really confused. I'll start from the top of your post.

Yes, the supervisors are aware. I think the gist of it is we are told that we should be grateful for whatever info we do get, we should be prepared for anything regardless, and the dispatchers are doing their best.

No, I don't have as much experience listening to 911 calls as a dispatcher does, but two sets of ears are better than one. Can you please explain to me a disadvantage of being able to listen to the 911 call that you're about to go on? I'd love to hear how having more info is a bad thing.

911 hangups are usually a police matter, however apparently that one was an exception. I guess she requested EMS, got transferred to our dispatchers, explained that she ran out of her meds and then hung up. There could be more to it, I don't know. I didn't hear the 911 call.

In response to your last paragraph, that's what really confused me. No, I don't know the questions to ask or "protcols" to follow, that's why I'm not advocating being on the line with the caller. Yes, I fully understand that often times callers are on the line with dispatch until we get there. Sure, a 911 call could be 5 or 10+ minutes, but at least with EMD the majority of the useful information is in the first minute or so. Again, I've sat in dispatch on multiple occasions and listened. I understand how it works. In those cases, the rest of the call is usually emotional support and/or CPR instructions, bleeding control, having the caller re-assess, etc. Again, the bottom line is I don't see how having access to LISTENING to the 911 calls while en route could be a bad thing. Feel free to enlighten me.

Let me just say one more time since there seems to be some confusion:

I am NOT for being on the line with the patient or 911 caller. That's dispatch's job and I am not qualified to do that.

I am NOT for changing dispatch's job at all. They would do everything they're doing now.

I was just suggesting that it would be helpful to be able to listen to the 911 calls before we arrive on scene. It's just more information that could be available to us.

[unknown]

Dispatchers are not trying to tell you how to do your job via conference call or video camera ( even though I DO sit here with the protocal book to my emediate right and a direct line to ALL our Medical Directors....) So you shouldnt need to "listen" to your calls. TRUST the dispatchers and use the Q&A system that I am MOST certian your county has in place to weed out the bad situations...........

[spenac]

I actually liked at my old job that if at all possible we talked to the caller. This allowed us to gather additional information and get patient or family to have things ready. We did get a better feel for what we were going into.

My new job all we get is a tone followed by address and basic complaint. Sometimes on the way dispatch will radio additional info that they have gathered.

The thing is in both systems 90%+ what we find does not match what we were told. So neither system is that great and as much as I pick on dispatchers it sucks trying to get people to calm down and answer questions. Thank you dispatchers but never forget I will continue to bash you.

[unknown]

I actually liked at my old job that if at all possible we talked to the caller. This allowed us to gather additional information and get patient or family to have things ready. We did get a better feel for what we were going into.

My new job all we get is a tone followed by address and basic complaint. Sometimes on the way dispatch will radio additional info that they have gathered.

The thing is in both systems 90%+ what we find does not match what we were told. So neither system is that great and as much as I pick on dispatchers it sucks trying to get people to calm down and answer questions. Thank you dispatchers but never forget I will continue to bash you.

BRING IT!! :thumbup:

[PatrickW]

Dispatchers are not trying to tell you how to do your job via conference call or video camera ( even though I DO sit here with the protocal book to my emediate right and a direct line to ALL our Medical Directors....) So you shouldnt need to "listen" to your calls. TRUST the dispatchers and use the Q&A system that I am MOST certian your county has in place to weed out the bad situations...........

Where did I suggest we start telling dispatchers how to do their job? Again, nothing at dispatch would change one bit. We would just have an extra resource at our disposal which may or may not give as a better idea of what we're walking into. Nobody said anything about "needing" to listen to the 911 calls, again, it would just be a nice tool to have at our disposal. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[brentoli]

What else do you do on your trip out? Me, I am usually thinking about the senario ahead, lookin at my protocols if it is something I haven't dealt with in a while. Watching for traffic, navigating, operating the radio....

How would it be more useful, I don't understand. There is nothing relevant a caller tells me I won't tell you. If you want your dispatchers to tell you they are talking to a 78 year old woman on the phone who just didnt know what to do so she called you. Ask your dispatcher that.

Do you want me to relay to you every minute detail in the call? Do you want me to tell you all 50 medications he is on and all 45 times he was in the hospital the last 20 years; using air time that could be needed for you or any other unit to call for help, or do you want me to filter out what is appropriate to this paticular call. If he is bleeding profusely from a cut to the arm, do you want to know all 15 medications he is on, or does it just matter he is on blood thinners? Think about it. It is a waste of resources. If you have a problem with dispatchers, ask to pull tapes and sit down with your supervisor and ask to do a QA with them. Don't ask to do their jobs for them.