BillKaneEMT

I know some basics that refer to themselves as medics. I don't really approve but when I explain that I'm an emt-b, NOT a paramedic, I ge tthe "Err,don't you work for that ambulance company? Thought you had to yadda yadda yadda." At first I would delineate the differences between the terms as well as I could depending on time and so forth. Now I tend to just say a couple years of paramedic school and leave it at that. Funnily enough I almost never have this discussion with patients. Regarding the DNP issue I haven't run into this personally. Everything I know about it thus far is anecdotal though I did just read about the AZ situation when I saw it mentioned here. I'm not gonna venture an opinion on this til I do some more research but so far it looks like a lot of angry people on either side so I'm sure the problem will be resolved soon with a minimum of fuss. ( ) Anyhow, interesting discussion so far. Edit: Regarding the angry people on both sides comment, I meant the responses to the AZ article I read, not you guys.

I hear what you guys are saying. In retrospect, the tone of my original post was probably caused by the fact that I studied my ass off to make sure I'd finish the class as high as I could, it was 12 hrs class a week plus volunteer shifts, plus 50-60 hrs working a week. I mean, I know it was just bls which is nothing compared to para or med school but I hadn't taken a class in over 10 years. Then I read that trauma journal thing and the gist was: "The core foundation of what you were taught is wrong. Haha!" It's never wise to post before you calm down and think logically, particularly in a case where you end up being incorrect . The more important issue I think is to inform people. I mean, our main instructor had been teaching the class for nearly 30 years. None of my fellow students are aware of any of this as far as I know. All this info is basically 180 degrees from the way they teach the classes. The curriculum REALLLY needs to be updated, both from the teachers and the textbooks we used. I'd be less annoyed with that if it changed once we started with a service. When I went to CDL school a decade ago they taught us to drive a certain way (double clutching etc) so we could pass the test. Then when we went out with our trainer after we were licensed it was explained that everything we were taught was totally wrong, this is how it's supposed to be done. Licensing boards want to see you do things their way, I get that. But our services damn well should have told us this stuff once we were certified and if the protocols don't work then they must be changed. I printed a copy of the Trauma Journal article and another one that was linked to it and I'm taking them in to George and the doc that helped teach our class. I can't actually bring it up to the medical director, only met him once and we're not on a first name basis. But George helped write the state test for the last 10 years so he certainly ought to be able to figure something out. I need to start auditing the classes at some point anyway, might as well be now:)

Certainly. Regarding the first statement: Lawsuits may be the rallying cry of the uneducated. A fair amount of our training both in class and on the job was devoted to protecting yourself and the company from lawsuits. I have little experience but based on the training I was given I did not think I had hurt a single patient by providing spinal immobilization. Now, I read that spinal immobilization is harmful or, at best, unneeded. I will certainly bring this to the attention of my medical director. Whether I will be listened to is uncertain. Point 2: The patient's xrays and ct scan were reviewed and he was found to have no spinal injury. Taking the collar off and tossing it right away would have caused no problem whatsoever. As for evidence that having a c-collar on in the case of a spinal injury would prevent further harm; all I can say is that my instructors, one of whom was a physician, assured me that applying a c-collar in case of a spinal injury was absolutely critical. Judging from what I read recently it seems that is not accurate. Not just what I read here, what I read in that trauma journal article as well. Frankly, they damn well better upgrade the books and teaching materials. For the 3rd and 4th points I have no useful response. I haven't read nearly enough information on this topic to argue it, particularly since it seems obvious from the responses that I'm incorrect. What can I say? It was a stupid post. I make them from time to time. I'll certainly try to think before posting next time. edit:clarification

Seems I've kicked a hornets nest. If I offended folks with my apparent dismissal of research studies then I apologize. I understand what you're saying and you're absolutely correct in that I do have a lot to learn. You say my protocols are wrong and harmful? It's impossible for me to dispute that given that all my knowledge was provided from books and instructors and that I have almost no experience in the field compared to you guys. I hereby withdraw my statements posted previously. Have a good one.

Firefighters would probably be toughest. They're just as organized as nurses when it comes to this sort of thing and they're also able to garner public support faster than any other group in the US except possibly Orphans with Terminal Diseases. Believe me, unless you can get the fire services on the MHS side it ain't. gonna. happen.

Ok, I found the article in Trauma journal about the study in which spinal immobilization was proven to be useless and harmful to patients by the docs. Good for them. I'll be happy to stop doing it provided that every single patient that sues for back and neck pain (which will be every single trauma patient, bar none) sues the docs instead of us. While I freely admit that in cases of penetrating trauma it can do more harm than good the idea that as soon as any patient is rolled into an ER the c-collar is ripped off and tossed is idiotic and probably harmful to innocent readers who haven't worked in ER. The first patient I treated in an ER setting was an accident victim who hadn't been wearing his seat belt. His jaw was dislocated by the steering wheel, he was basically scalped by the windshield(the entire crown of his head was connected by a 3 inch scrap of skin at the back). The doctor kept the c-collar on him til after the xrays and ct scan were complete. The doc who wrote the article was full of it. He acted like that here and he'd have some trouble finding a job the emergency medical field. Not because us lowly non doctor types would disapprove but because he'd be sued every damn patient he saw. Still, in the case of penetrating trauma or internal trauma I understand what they mean. I simply feel the article overstated their case somewhat. And if you think the chosen cases couldn't have been chosen specifically to skew their findings I'll have to surmise a lack of experience in the field of academic experimentation. I'm not accusing the testers of dishonesty, not as such. I'm simply stating the fact that researchers are perfectly capable of deciding what their tests will discover before they're made. You may find this difficult to believe but when, as an example, a certain brand of health food commissions a 3 year study, at the cost of 5 million a year in funding, to determine who has the healthiest type of health food..... let's just say that their competitor is unlikely to benefit from that study. I'm not saying that's what happened here. The article I read was far too strong against it though. The implication was "If you immobilize the spine, you might as well put a 12 gauge shotgun to your patients head and pull the trigger!!! DAMN YOU SPINAL IMMOBILIZERS!!!! DAMN YOU TO HELLLLLLL!!!" It struck me as a case of certain research folks wanting to make a name for themselves. Supporting the status quo is obviously not the way to do that. If you want to write a historical reference book about George Washington which states that he was a talented general, the father of our country, and wore a wig and wooden teeth; publishers will flick rubber bands at you til you leave their office. If you want to write a book in which Washington is portrayed as a communist vampire who consumes the souls of clergymen to sustain his power and has secretly been possessing every president since the revolution.... well. Publishers will literally try to run over with dump trucks full of cash. Because they want to sell books. Again, I have no proof that that's the case here. I simply have a deep suspicion of... well. Of damn near everyone I don't personally know.

Really? No more long boards and KEDs? Well, if they're not needed then fair enough. They're certainly not so much fun that I'd support their use if it's been determined they're unhelpful. What about c-collars, can we dispense with those as well? How bout if I roll up to a 4 car collision on the interstate and just give everybody a damn good shake? Anyone who's head starts flopping around like a tetherball gets a lift to the ER? I'm only kiddin with ya, though of course if protocols get changed then so be it. Til then I have to stick with mah long board and KED. And even my high flow O2. Though I understand the arguments against the O2 (as opposed to spinal immobilization). And what's this about tourniquets? Those are suddenly back in favor? They issue us with the friggin inflatable shock pants I'm gonna be pissed. Ah well, time to audit some classes I spose. I do see why they make us do that every year now. I'll get to hassle some students which will be fun. Good Old Evil George and his Psychotic Scenarios of Doom. Where kidnapping, dismemberment, cannibalism and human sacrifice of emt students who aren't observant or quick witted enough is the norm. And that's on a basic trauma call. You don't want to know what happens on a psych call. Oooh, now I'm excited! *evil chuckle*

Here's a link to the story. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0409/Two-firefighters-killed-in-Philadelpha-fire Two firefighters battling a massive blaze at an abandoned warehouse on Monday were killed when an adjacent furniture store they were inspecting collapsed, burying them in a pile of debris, authorities said. It took about two hours to extract the bodies of Lt. Robert Neary, 60, and firefighter/paramedic Daniel Sweeney, 25, because of all the debris, fire Commissioner Lloyd Ayers said. Two other firefighters were rescued and taken to a hospital for treatment of non-life-threatening injuries.

Assuming it's not a joke or publicity thing, I don't know. I saw someone suggest that It could carry 2 paras who could speed like maniacs to the scene of an AMI and begin treatment until the box ambulance arrived. Obviously, faster response time would be nice but I don't think that's really a practical way to do things. I also can't imagine what insuring that would cost an ambulance service. Or maybe they just strap the patient to the front like a (hopefully) living hood ornament!

I think most of the funny ems pics I see are from California. Can't prove it, but I do believe so. edit: stupid space bar:P

Such a crazy Kiwi:P Naptown is ok but the only interview I had there offered $9.50 an hour. Living on $9.50/hr when a studio apt goes for 600 a month is not conducive to my good health. Cuz I'd be eating Ramen every day and that's a bit high in sodium and whatnot. Trying to make me hypertensive Kiwi???? ;-D

Had another interview in Lafayette today. Felt like a great interview to me and I got a callback shortly after I got home telling me I had made the cut for round 2 of interviews and to come back in on Friday. Fingers crossed, we'll see how it goes.

Teamsters! Bahahahahahahhahaa. Sorry. Can't help myself sometimes. As a former teamster I admit that they got us a decent wage. I also admit that I've never seen or heard of a more corrupt, graft-heavy, mobbed up buncha goombas then I had to deal with there.

I've only had 2 offers so far and both were for $9.25/hr. Assuming full time this would give a yearly pre tax total of around 17.5k. Dollars. After taxes maybe 1200 dollars a month. I live on less now. Barely. I read the average for EMT-b's was 12-14 dollars per hour in the US. And since it was on the interwebs it must be true!!! That's Indiana for ya:) In all seriousness, I have an interview in Lafayette tomorrow for which I retain high hopes. If they offer me 9 bucks and change an hour I will be a sad panda.

Omg DFIB. That was excellent. Now if monster would just hire me to replace the fainting guy and he could have my job.... man, what a great solution!

IIRC, EMT candidates require at least a high school diploma, must be 18 years of age at either the beginning or end of class (you may want to verify that with your local emt instructor), and require a cpr/aed for professional lifesavers card. Those classes take 1 day and cost about 70 bucks if you take it through the American Red Cross. Class availability is listed on the American Red Cross site. Ok, this is from the bls.gov website: Note: that doesn't specify an age or mention the cpr/aed card. Getting your emt-b cert in Indiana requires you to be 18 by the end of the class, a diploma, and a cpr/aed for pro lifesavers card. Presumably every state does it differently. If you take the class through the ARC they'll be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding the class requirements and such prior to your signing up. If you take your classes through a private company... some are great, some are ok, some not so good. I'd advise some research before you sign up with anybody. Good luck! edit: I screwed up the quote somehow. Dunno what that was.

Well hi there! Nice to meet you:) I hope you'll enjoy hanging out with this group as much as I have. I've learned quite a bit since I started coming here and met plenty of great folks. As I've said before, it's rare to find an internet forum in which the community is both friendly and helpful. EMTCity is batting a thousand

Oooh, hobbies. I love to go snowskiing. Can't afford it lately but that's probably number one on the list. Also a big fan of spelunking, hiking, camping, reading (<3 my kindle), forum-devouring, cooking, and attending ren-faires in full costume one weekend a year. Yeah, that's right. /chainmail

Iiiinteresting. The only times I've worked in ambulances were with, technically, FD rigs. It was the paramedic unit of a nearby city's Fire Department. Thing is, ALL rigs except for the few private companies up here are FD rigs. Hospitals don't have their own ambulances until you get to Lafayette or Indy. Here's the odd part. The Paramedics I was with, while technically firefighters, never ever ever ride anything but the ambulance. Although they were moderately civil to the firefighters and vice versa, there was a lot of tension in the air and a lot of snide remarks. It was odd. As I said, they were technically all firefighters but there was a large gap there. The FD station made it worse. There were separate areas for each group into which the other group could not go. It was like they were enemies despite wearing the same uniform and living in the same building. Each group explained their disdain for the others to me while out of earshot at different times. Neither group really made sense though. I'll give an example of what it's like here. Picture a football team. 85% of the team wears Nike brand cleats. 15% wear Reebok brand cleats. Nikes consider the Reeboks overpaid wimps. Reeboks consider the Nikes moronic hose jockeys. Both groups are wrong. Sorry. Regarding the original post here, most stereotypes have a grain of truth. Stereotypes tend to range from slightly irritating to extremely hurtful but they share some common factors. Almost everyone knows at least one person for which a stereotype is accurate. Not even the most compulsive liar would argue that any stereotype was true of the entire group being (mis)represented. They're unnecessary. They're not going to go away.. Even the one's that people say are true are typically true of a tiny percentage of the people being stereotyped. It may be an obnoxiously loud percentage but it's still a tiny one! So, what is the solution? I'll propose three plans. #1: We could install mind control software in every huiman's brain to make them behave in a more PC way. #2:We could try to emulate the mighty duck and allow people's bullshit to slide off us as irrelevant. #3: We could sue everyone and tie up the court system for years with frivolous lawsuits. Only joking! Or "taking" as they say, "the piss" if you will :)The third option doesn't work. We've been trying it for years and it hasn't helped. My advice would be to try something between option one and option two. Closer to option two for my preference but that's just me. Thoughts?

Sounds like a plan. This was a truly spectacular derailed thread here. It was a case of the train not just leaving the tracks but jumping off a bridge and falling through a wormhole to reappear in French Polynesia back in 8326 B.C. Please note, that was a joke. I was, in fact, taking the piss:) If you are a railroad employee, bridge engineer, particle physicist, French Polynesian, historian, or caveman/woman; please don't yell at me, I was only kidding!!! Honest! ;-D Now where were we.... Oh yah. Darn you Robert Frazier!!!! How dare you try give us fake credentials! Want mine? EMT-B in the state of Indiana. That's all. My credentials are so tiny. I need to buy a porsche or something. Just so everyone is clear, I don't have room to let people stay with me but if anybody ends up in Northwest IN do let me know. We'll go grab a bite and a brew at least. Seriously, I'll pull a Shatner and find you a cheap, decent hotel but I have no space for houseguests. I do know the best bars and restaurants in the area though! Also the best place for karaoke and $2 you-call-its on Wednesdays. The piss, I can assure you, is not being taken regarding that! Just an fyi, I now intend to use that phrase incessantly. It makes me grin and has now entered my regular vocab. Gonna spread it around to all my friends too. Kiwi, you ever show up here you'll know how to get in touch with me by following the trail of people using NZ phrases:P That goes for anyone else who appears in this region too. Or, y'know, send a PM first:) edit: sp

No tickets, no accidents. Ever. Our instructor has taught the class for nearly 30 years now, it's done through the American Red Cross and it's around 240 class hours if I recall correctly. Plus volunteer stuff with ALS units and in the ER of course. What's odd is that people who take the emt classes 20 minutes away in Illinois usually go for around half that. But IL people can't work over here unless they test with us which was semi hilarious. We had 35 students, 13 finished the class, the rest dropped or were booted. On practical night we had 5 people from Illinois doing the stations as well and all 5 of them failed at least 4 stations. No one from our class failed more than one, and they retested that night with no trouble. As far as state written tests go I think the 70% requirement is a joke. I'm still in touch with our class and none of us got below an 85 on it. They ought to bump it up to at least 80% required, particularly since that was the bare minimum to pass our class final. I was honestly a bit shocked at the IL EMT's who came to test with us. They were nice enough people but all of them failed the KED, a couple of them failed the long board and I believe they all failed the non-visualized airway. Also either trauma or medical generally. Alas, all I got was a plain old EMT-B cert, plus an Illinois one I sent for. IN emt's just need to send a form and a letter of completion from Indiana to get the IL one. Thing is, there are about 9 million Illinois emt's so that's less helpful than it ought to be. Anyway, I'm certainly not going to give up, and I'm definitely going to do Paramedic school as soon as I can but it costs around 6-7k here and I just can't afford it right now. Oh well, I'll just have to exercise patience. It probably builds character or something. I've seen several of those lately but I've honestly been worried about applying to them. Most of the ones I see offer great pay but they all say "job is located in Saudi Arabia, requires 1/2/3 year contract" or something along those lines. I was, I admit, somewhat suspicious of the ads. You got one of the jobs, how is it? Did you need to know the language beforehand to be qualified? The ads are somewhat vague, can you describe how it works? Thanks!

What ever happened to Jeff Foxworthy?....

I do actually. It may just be extreme tiredness but I'm feeling surprisingly calm. Think I got it out of my system. Out with the bad air, in with the good. /repeat.

Welcome Mike. Let me know if you end up in Chicagoland. We'll roll out the welcome wagon.