Just Plain Ruff

Let me clarify Dust Devil man, All those criteria are relative and every code is different. Those rules were never set in stone they were guidelines in my "head" only.

Every code is different and I can't remember the last time that those were followed to the letter for me. It is situational. The only time I didn't work the patient were the times that they qualified as dead, rigor, decomp

Every code got at least some measure of ACLS but you can bet your butt I was on the phone with med direction on the ones I wanted and thought we could end early.

"just remember you can't kill em any deader"

Sarcasm - Now Dust you must not know our legal system very well - don't you know if you find the right Schyster (sic) lawyer that they will sue anyone - Sarcasm

If they sue it will probably get to court but the homeowner will lose.

I just hope that the fire department brought plenty of hot dogs and marshmallows.

Oh that's fair. Cool

Actually they were there to protect their subscribers property.

Not sure if I believe the homeowner but what's done unfortunately is done.

great advice Jake

Just make sure you learn the basics in EMT class. It's one thing to get it all done in one foul swoop and in one long continuous process but nothing takes the place of experience.

that is why I say to have a delay between emt to emt-p class as you get that field experience.

You will be a better provider for it.

Get your EMT - if you are younger than 25 then you might find it hard to be covered under the services insurance but then again it might not be a problem at all.

Do not go directly into paramedic school after you get your emt. you need field experience to supplement your paramedic.

But if you do decide to to into paramedic directly after emt then by all means get a lot of ride time if you can.

UHHH I think your protocols would say YES!!!! but I don't see them so I'd say yes

Scapula pain - I would collar her and lsb him. ETOH yep she'd get a c-collar

Moderate damage on the car - YEP

Airbag deployment - you didn't say anything about seat belts. If airbag deployed and she wasn't wearing a seatbelt which I cannot believe that someone with ETOH wouldn't use a seatbelt, then heck yes I'd collar them.

We all know that Drunks are too STUPID on scene to know what's best for them.

What did she hit?

I had criteria that I put into play a long time ago while working in the field regarding cardiac arrests

1. Peds codes always went to the hospital if we started working on them.

2. Witnessed arrest and cpr in progress with less than a 5 minute drive to the scene - work and transport

3. Any arrest without cpr and greater than 10 minute drive to the scene - work on scene and call if appropriate

4. Trauma codes - work to the hospital

5. Any time it took me 20 minutes or more to get to the scene for any type of arrest - work on scene and call if appropriate

6. Any time it was over 20 minutes to get to the scene, no cpr or interventions done by first responders and the patient was asystole - didn't even work them other than quick look.

7. Cold water drowning - above criteria go out the window

Come on, if it takes 20 minutes to get to someone in asystole with no cpr or interventions done then they get a ride to the funeral home unless it's cold water drowning.

If the drive time back to the hospital was less than 5 minutes - no lights and sirens

Drive time greater than 5 minutes - l&s as appropriate

Of course all my criteria would be backed up by a call to the ER Doc and his advice requested. Most time's he/she agreed with me.

There are exceptions to every rule but those criteria

so what do I win ER DOC

CSR I think you are wrong but your opinion is yours.

The homeowner said that he did not know that he needed to pay dues. He says he never was told. That's not neglecting to join, it's information that he did not get.

ha ha well before you start spouting grammar rules you might want to check your spelling. I found no fewer than 5 spelling and grammar errors. So before you start down the grammar card I would review your post and edit it so someone can understand it.

No reason to make personal jabs here.

Why bring Iraq into this. That argument just does not hold water in this situation.

The fact of the matter is this - the fire department was already on scene. They were making sure their subscribers homes and property would not sustain any damage. Kudos for them on that aspect. But what makes it all the more outrageous is that the homeowner offered to pay the dues yet they were unable to accept the payment due to their lack of a system to do this.

I cannot imagine a fire department that would let someone's home/garage burn down and stand around and watch it burn. This to me is unconscionable. If they were not on scene already I can see that argument but they were there on scene for crikies sake.

Hammer

hunting with Dick Cheney is infinitely safer than riding in a car with Teddy Kennedy

Just ask Mary Jo Kopecnik(sic)

Just do a google on Chappequidic

I agree that they don't have a obligation to respond if you haven't paid your dues but for god's sake, they were right there at the scene.

Another inground swimming pool courtesy of the Monett fire department. Oh do you need water for that pool, pay your dues.

It's just wrong that they were right there and did NOTHING.

Holy heck batman

well with muffled heart tones I suspect that she has cancer around the heart and it's prohibiting her ability to pump. Or she could have a tamponade.

Any history of trauma after her syncopal episode??

OH MY GOD, It's the RACE CARD.

Seriously, I don't believe that race had anything to do with it.

CSR let's say you didn't know any better and always lived in an area where fire suppression and service was paid for by taxes. You didn't pay the fire department dues cause you didn't know. Even to the point that you went to those so called meetings etc that you slam this guy for not going to. No-one told you that you had to pay membership to have fires put out.

Your house burns down with everything in it. The Fire department came out to make sure that their members houses were safe.

You go up and ask why they aren't fighting your house fire. They say, Oh you didn't pay your dues so we'll let these shiny new fire trucks sit around and not be used.

You then try to pay the fire chief and he says, oh, we don't allow that and are not equipped to do that.

I am sure that you would get your garden hose and a bucket and start to try to put your house out.

NO NO NO I am sure you'd be cryin on these boards as well as getting the first lawyer you can find cause they sat on their assess (sic intended) and watched your house burn.

When the shoe is on the other foot it is usually too tight.

I for one moved to a county where there were dues and I had no idea that you had to pay dues to the fire department. I paid the dues after working an incident with the fire department. But they said that if someone's house was on fire and they were called and the person hadn't paid dues they would put out the fire and then bill the home owner's insurance company or directly to the homeowner.

This was clearly a Failure to ACT or a Duty to act they failed to act.

Nice site on Grants for Fire Departments.

http://www.firegrantsupport.com/afg/awards...nersSearch.aspx

PPG you took the words right out of my mouth.

Spot on if you ask me.

Even though the homeowner said he'd pay the dues they still didn't fight the fire. That's just plain wrong.

For the person who lives in that area who posted, what are the fire departments dues anyway? How much are they?

Does anyone know of the legal ramifications of this? They were there and they did nothing. That's outrageous.

What about car fires. Oh your license plate doesn't have the tag on it so you are out of luck. Burn baby burn

What a bunch of morons. Perfect chance to put their skills(if any) to work and practice.

This is just plain wrong. The fire fighters were already there. Why not fight the fire.

Then bill the guy afterward.

I wonder how many monett fire fighters pay dues? Or do they get it for free if their house burns down.

Dues based fire fighting is woefully out of date and needs to be changed. I'd send the bill to the fire department or take the dues thing to court. If you aren't told about dues then how are you supposed to know.

I too used to work in a county without 911 except for the major city of 5500 people. The rest of the county paid long distance to call Emergency services.

If someone called 911 in the county it was routed across county lines into neighboring henry county and sometimes there were the same addresses so Henry county would respond only to realize it was in Bates County.

It's F'd up if you ask me.

So do paramedics - they need doctors to work under also. Let's not forget that. Where do you think you get your orders from? Where do you think you get your protocols from. You also have to have a medical Doctor to be your service's medical director.

Standing orders are approved by physicians from where I come from so yes you do work under a doctor.

Yes the nurse was out of line but I believe that cotjockey was out of line too and her snappish comments only accelerated the issue.

I agree with Rid on this one. In my opinion - the attitude posted stinks. You openly were rude to the RN on scene. I didn't see you writing that you asked her for what she found while you were driving to the scene? How did you know the patient was diabetic? You don't state that you checked the Blood sugar.

As for your student, yes she's a pain yet she seems like she is trying and wants to get her cpr cert. Even though she sounds like a total moron you also don't want to deal with her and you do offer your services for free so you can refuse to teach her. Some people are just not cut out to learn cpr. Just don't agree to teach her.

How would you have treated a doc on the scene, the same way? I hope not.

I cannot say what happened on the scene but your posting here makes you look like you are a smart mouthed paramedic. And like Rid said, this is the second time you've had a run in with a nurse, be it the same one or not, it sure sounds like you have issues with Nurses.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if I was a supervisor and heard you speak that way to a Nurse who was trying to help I'd have given you 3 days off without pay and a mark on your personnel record.

An ambualance service I used to work for had several incidents where the crews were working 24-72 hour shifts. This was about 20 years ago or so but after several of their drivers either were involved in accidents or they took out parked cars and a telephone pole the service wised up and maxxed their shifts to 14 hours in a given 24 period.

Making someone work a 24 and not allow them sleep is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I know because I've been involved in one lawsuit due to lack of sleep. I was the medic on the truck and my partner and I had been up 19 hours straight before running a red light and creaming a small 4 door car. My driver fell asleep. It was not fun nor pretty and we lost.

I think he spell checked prior to putting that spell check note in.

had a call on a short of breath. Got to the house. door locked. no response on the call back. looked all over the yard and around the house to find a place they might have kept a key.

20 minutes later a police officer went to the neighbors house and was able to get a key. We opened the door, looked around the house. didn't find a patient.

walked downstairs and in a finished basement there was the patient. DEAD WE did not work her.

I kicked myself for not forcing the issue of forced entry but I documented in the report that the PD refused to allow forced entry since there was no answer on the call back and the house was dark.

He got 2 days off and and internal affairs investigation. Not pretty