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LMAO @ you Richard! LOL I was just picking at ya you didn't have to go and justify all that but hey-- that's pretty cool you laid it all out for us!!

I am glad to see I wasn't the only one worried about the whole vomiting and asperation thing too....

It's interesting that you bring up a comparison to a pool shark. I used to play pool when I was younger. A lot. I lived accross the street from a bar/grill/convenience store (yeah, rural Wisconsin) which was about as busy as and Amish Radio Shack. The owners would let a couple of us play pool there on a regular basis as long as it wasn't too busy and we were decent about it. A lot of the old timers would give us pointers once in a while, but mostly they just let us play or let us watch them play.

One thing I learned is that the players that won the most games were the ones who played within their means. No trick shots unless it was for fun or there was no option. There were guys who would take bank shots when they didn't need too, would try masse instead of playing defense, and would take other shots that were beyond their skill. They focused on the shot and lost sight of the game.

Of course, there were the guys who would wander in every so often, pull off the trick shots on a regular basis and not have to pay for a game after that. Jerks.

HHMMM I think I lost the meaning in the translation, the point here was? I mean in reference to the OP.......did we get a little off track? :-s :scratch:

I have a Helicopter in my back window dead center to the break light, but it is an Employee sticker that Identifies me and my parking status at our national headquarters.....other than that I am a member of our flight service so that sticker is in the lower left hand corner of my rear window.

Other than that the only other identifier on either vehical I drive is a crayola portiat my son put on the left rear quarter panel of my buick regel.......it was a birthday wish from him and I don't have the heart to clean it off~even if I did bust his hiney for coloring on my car!!!

Richard B,

At some point I just got to ask.....Do you get out much?

jouleman

Welcome, and I do hope you have found camaraderie here.

I didn't think I would ever agree with Dust on any thing but CISM is useless and at the hands of being forced through it unsuccessfully I detest the very thought of it. You are better off seeking your friends and fellow Crew members to vent and get it off your chest. I my self have recently been through a tuff situation with the loss of a flight crew. Here on EMT City I found friends that understood and To this day many will drop a note to ask how I am holding up, and If I am ok.

I think you also will find that type of friendship here.

Best of luck to you!

Littlest Cowboy Rides Again~Chris Ledoux

Public Service Announcement to Everyone Except Dwayne:

When you're playing pool, watch out for the guy who wanders in pretending he doesn't know which end of the stick is which. Thank you very much.

:shock:

ROTFLMAO @ YOU MICHAEL!!

Yes Dwayne, VERY well Stated!!! :thumbleft:

My goal is to be as "least clueless" as possible on-scenes

Bravo Anthony and I couldn't have said it better.

Desperado~Eagles

Being an EMS instructor, I feel that the standard EMT class is enough to get a student started out in the field. It's the student's responsibility to keep learning new skills, such as taking PHTLS, BTLS, GEMS, etc. I'll probably get crucified at this point, but I've begged one of the EMS chiefs that runs the ALCS and PALS courses at our local hospital to allow EMTs to sit in on them - not to be able to practice the skills, of course, but just to have MORE knowledge and understanding of the theory behind the skills.

If your skills are that good that you're getting noticed and encouraged by the medics to do something about it - DO IT!

You shouldn't be affraid of being crucified for this statement. NOT only is it an excellent Idea I have, (and can provide proof) completed PHTLS, PALS and NRP (Neonate Recesitation Program). This does not mean in any way that I am out in the field intibating newborn babies BUT I can be ready to follow my medics every step and preceed what he needs before the speaks it.

incognitogirl, I do have a simple question that will determine much in this discussion. Do you believe that 110 hours of training with 2 hours of anatomy and physiology and 1 hour of pharmacology is enough time to make, what is in essence (i.e. highest medical provider providing care to a patient without direct oversight), an independent medical provider?

note: Numbers taken from the EMT-B standard curricula per NHTSA.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/ems/pub/emtbnsc.pdf

Appendix E

My answer is adamantley NO.

Not an independent medical provider as in I do not support BLS crews AT all. (I am assuming here that you are refereing to this?)

I do believe a good team of EMT~B and a Paramedic for an ALS crew is not at all a bad idea. Especially with the shortage of medics we have. We have many (SEVERAL Emt~B working our local services that did not pass the paramedic exams. They took the classes they tried and they are still Good medical providers and they still do an excellent job as an EMT backing up their Paramedic. Why stick 2 paramedics in 1 truck for 1 crew when you can take 2 EMT~B paired up with the 2 Medics and now have twice the needed coverage? THAT is all I am saying. However again I do not support a BLS crew on its own. I believe an EMT~B to be an asset to the Medic. I myself do not want to nor have any desire to be out there without a Paramedic having my back.

WHY? Because I know I can not do what he has been trained to do. I do not in any manner support or condone those who feel EMT~B should be allowed to do things a medic can do.

Could you please provide an example to explain the passage I bolded above?

Fair enough. Two medics working together one a student one not... are being very proactive to package and treat a patient, trauma from an MVA with a questionable Blood Pressure. In their eagerness to "load and go" which by all means needed to be done, they immediately started to strap the patient down and quickly began to prepare to place IV's... HOWEVER I simply asked if there was any thing they wanted to do prior to strapping this patient to the back board. I felt we needed to expose the patient and do a quick assessment. After the DUH look I received they quickly joined me in removing the clothing and discovered a bleed behind the right knee that COULD HAVE BEEN life altering for the patient. You can provide all the IV fluids you want but if your patient bleeds pink what good is it going to do you? YES they had done a quick once over to the patient (who was covered in blood from the death of the occupant in the back seat of the car with him) but I felt something else was prevalent and they had a mind set to push IV'S meds and such. Patient was +LOC but had a patent airway. BOTH medics admitted to being focused on the bad blood pressure and what they where going to do to treat it, not stopping to think about finding the initial cause. They just zoned on one thing. It happens. I guess. I didn't spend much time in the field, it wasn't practical for me and NO I won't sit here and say another medic wouldn't have done the same thing I did.

1. It is overwrought with emotion, which clouds one's ability to step back and logically rationalize or debate. It prevents one from seeing the larger picture, does not allow you to remain objective and make informed decisions based on fact.

Nope, it's not overwrought with emotion. Not at all. It is a statement of observation being made and a question asked as how it is THESE Forms do not reflect the real time setting I exist in. Doesn't add up, and certainly doesn't make sense.

2. Your entire post is "you, you, you". You are taking this way too personally. You may be the exception to the rule as there always are and there are others like you. However, the few exceptions out of the thousands does not help the cause.

And again NO this is not being taken personally. I can not speak for any one but myself and I only have my experience to go by so by all means I tell what I have witnessed and I ask the question that I have. But no I am not taking this personally YOU however, as it seems to me, are taking this out of context.

You know what, YES I am gonna go there.....

On thread after thread I have pondered and pondered this....

Excuse me as I vent because I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND!

In my years as an EMT-B I have been praised by my medics. I had referred to myself many many times as "Just and EMT" BUT I have been admonished many times for making that statement.

When it comes to asking questions, as an EMTB I have been in the situation to where I didn't want to question my medic but I did have to ask the obvious because he was so wrapped up in the deeper aspects of what was going on that he ignored the simple thing that was going to make his interventions null and void if it wasn't addressed. I was always told BY MEDICS- a good EMT always saves a Medics arse. In my experience in and out of the field I have never EVER ran into the adverse reactions of being an EMTB that I have encountered here. Why is that? In real life my status of an EMTB is a welcomed thing. In the community I live in, we don't have enough of them and my employer hires individuals and sends them to EMT school to be able to preform the job I do.

So PEOPLE PLEASE! Explain to me why in the world EMT CITY is so down on and against EMT-B? I do not for the life of me understand it. When I have multiple job offers, friends that are medics begging me to work the ground and utilize my skills (in my case having a keen eye for the small details that often gets over looked by others) instead of being holed up in a basement behind a console. I make excellent money for what I do in the community I live in. To give up what I do would be senseless and STUPID because no one can even come close to paying me what I make with AEL.

So please forgive me for not understanding and being mind boggled at the undercurrent and constant EMT~B bashing fest that take place here. I have ZERO respect at this point in time for several ( gee names need not be mentioned) because of the Verbal insults and on onslaught against the EMT~B. If we where as useless and worthless as we are made out to be our accreditation would not even exist. Jobs such as mine wouldn't require our licensure. My medic friends wouldn't incourage me to get out of the basement and back into the truck.

So for those of you that read this and are against the EMT~B- GIVE IT A REST! If we didn't have a place there wouldn't even be a class to be taken, a job to be offered, and NO accreditation would exist. UNTIL they completely do away will ALL EMT~B jobs, classes and licensures; do us all a favor, and PLEASE!! LAY OFF THE EMT~B!!

Actually incog you shouldn't have to take a beating for wanting to stay the level you are.

What I think gets us all inflamed is those emt's who state why can't I push this drug, why can't I do an advanced skill if all I have to do is go to an additional class.

If you like the level you are and are happy there then by all means stay there but those who want to do more as emt's and think they should get to play with the fancy medic tools then those are the ones we have problems with.

Those who do not know their limitations nor admit that there should be additional schooling or education to actually perform the skills are the ones who are causing one of the biggest disservices to the profession.

My skills as an EMTB are used behind the console. I work hand in hand with those that are not EMTB. We work in teams of 3 with the EMTB primarily answering the Emergency lines, backed up by 2 others answering non emergent phone lines and radio traffic. The time does come when non medical person must answer an emergency line due to call volume. MANY many times they quickly hand off to a medical person or call for the in house RN (Med-Link) for back up.

Cotton Eyed Joe~Various

Road Ode~The Carpenters

Reaper its like this. I have looked at all options. No grants or such for me I make too much money. PLUS I like the Job I have, and It pays just as much if not more than the medics make around me. So I ask you this. Why further my education (sighting the hardships it will place on me and my children) when the pay is better than most and the benifits are good? BUT..... Why must I stand the onslaught of the "lowley emtb" when the EMT-B is all I need to do my job?

My pay will not increase with the EMTP, as a matter of fact I stand to make less (in the area I live in mind you) If I quit my current job to work on the ground truck as a paramedic. NOW if I wanted to fly.... that is another story and I would have to work the ground for at least 3 years before I fly. I don't really want to do that, I like what I do and I do it well........and It works for me and my children. I just don't understand why we EMT-B's must continue to take a verbal beating for not furthering our education. Thats our choice and we don't need or deserve to be drug through the mud for it!!

Copperhead Road~Steve Earl

Dirt Road~Earl Scruggs

For a side note:

Please don't bring out the line " Why don't you pay for her medic class". All of us have done it and I can guarantee you that I was at rock bottom, when I went through school. There are many ways to pay for schooling, look around.

Please don't use money as an excuse to not further your education!

I have no problem with EMT's asking why I choose a certain treatment, I will gladly explain why. But, the first one that tells me I'm wrong and their right, gets chewed up and spit out.

BTW, I was an EMT for 13 years, before going on to medic. I can tell you that I learned one thing. I knew nothing about medicine, even though I thought I knew it all!!! :shock:

Speak for your self not others.

I agree with Don on this one.

They gonna pay for my class too? AND for the childcare I need while I am in class and at clinicals?

I work.

I make a decent wage, NO help and I mean ZERO help is available to me for finances needed for class. Sure I could get a student loan but I have 3 children to raise a house to pay for and trust me, I know that I can not foot another payment now or in the future so school is out for me. In the mean time I continue to take pot shots from the likes of those that think we all can just jump and run off to school at the drop of a hat. I have tried numerous times and NOW we don't even have a class locally to take. Living 150 miles beyond the middle of nowhere from BF freakin E I would have to drive a substantial distance just to attend class. So lets equate the price of gas in to the total bill.

Nope~ it just not a feasible option. So I say to you all. You still gonna diss us all for not furthering our education? I am not alone............

Yep St Louis, It wouldn't suprise me.

I was Country When Country Wasn't Cool~Barbara Mandrell