How Many AMR's closed in past week

[Doug]

Our local office is closing...just got word Tuesday. I know that 5 total were closed between Conn. and Mass. Anybody have any idea how many nationwide have had closing announcements? I know the week before all regional managers were called to Colorado to learn about closings...I don't think they'd call them all there just to tell them about our little corner of the world.

[Dustdevil]

Closing their union shops, one by one, starting with the smaller ones and working their way up. The guys in Kalifornia ought to see this one coming from a continent away and react accordingly. Their days are numbered too.

[NREMT-Basic]

I must admit Ive never really understood AMR. Are they sold like franchises and if so how are they union? Can someone talk to me like Im 4 and explain exactly what the deal is with AMR and how they are set up?

[SSG G-man]

I saw they lost the contract to run the service in Richmond , VA. Apparently all the equipment , units, etc belong to city, AMR was running things. I read they had not net response time goal in 11 out of last 12 months!!

[Just Plain Ruff]

Guys when you have a for profit service like AMR is and your primary source of profit is transfers. You then have contracts for certain transfer services like the VA in Kansas City MO and other places.

Your first priority is not to the 911 patients but to the transfer contracts. Couple that with a transfer that comes in and takes your last available 911 unit. now a 911 call comes in and you have to pull a unit from the other side of the city to run to the opposite side of the city to cover that call.

There's no way you can meet your response requirements if you run your business that way.

I have worked for AMR so I know what I'm talking about, I have a cousin who currently works inthe Independence missouri AMR shop and I hear the horror stories to this day.

I am anti-amr and will always be anti AMR since they came in and bought the mom and pop shop that I was working at.

Profit + transfers - 911 calls = AMR

I truly believe that the big consolidated national ambulance services are one of the largest and most dangerous problems we face in EMS.

[Dustdevil]

I truly believe that the big consolidated national ambulance services are one of the largest and most dangerous problems we face in EMS.

The question is, if the system were changed as I would like it to be changed -- that is, EMS is prohibited from running non-emergency, non-medical, horizontal taxi services, and vice versa -- and EMS were mandated to be stand-alone, would AMR stay in business? Would they still find a way to make it work, or would they immediately take their football and go home? Either way, I don't really care. I am the very last person here to be anti-free enterprise. I think if private industry can do the job well, that is wonderful, and I embrace them. But if the only way they can make it work is by robbing Peter to pay Paul, then that is simply not a sound business plan, and they need to GTF out. Yes, I will lament the day that only government provides EMS. We will all suffer horribly from that. But for the privates to cling to this combined-service nonsense in order to pay the bills is hurting the profession and the service as well.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Dust, I agree totally with you

If AMR can provide 911 service as well as transfer services and keep the citizens covered for the 911 calls then by all means I say, AMR Stick around.

But if they are taking the last ambulance in the city out of service to run a 2 hour transfer and leaving no ambulances in the city available then the system is broken.

I can't count the number of times that I was the last unit in the city and we got toned out for a transfer for the VA. The next closest unit or next available unit was at a local hospital.

It never failed that our ambulance was on the way to the VA or a paid transfer contract call and a call came out. We continued on to our transfer while the ambulance at the hospital was toned out to drive from one side of the city to the other to take care of a non-breather or a chest pain or a wreck or a myriad of other things. We were the obvious closest car but due to contractual constraints, once the ambulance was enroute to the transfer they were not to be pulled off it. To me that's putting profit over pt.s lives.

Now my cousin who works at AMR says that since AMR Could not meet the obligations of the VA contract due to trying to serve peter and also serve paul, they have lost the VA contract only to work to get it back.

The current system won't work, it's been proven that's why they lost the contract but profit will win over in the end and AMR Will be back to it's own ways again.

Now take for instance MAST ambulance in KC MO. They have dedicated ambu vans and transfer cars that only run transfers. They also have dedicated 911 cars that only run 911 calls. And then they have a mix of others that do both. It may have changed recently since the last time I talked to a mast medic was about a year ago but this is a private service but run for the city of KC MO. They have response times to meet and they do a consistently good job of meeting those response times.

This is a system that seems to work.

[MeekoBB]

The equation Ruff mentioned reminds me of my job, but I do know that the company I work for has 1 truck dedicated to 911, and stays at base. There is "usually" EMTs around base to jump in the truck to respond.

[Doug]

I don't understand you are anti-AMR because they bought out the mom and pop operation that was there...Forgive me but why is it ok for a "mom and pop" to make money but not a larger corporation...in fact aren't the mom and pop operation just a "guilty" they took the money when they were offered a buy out...it's much like the anti-big box store frenzy whenever they move into town.."they'll put us out of business..." well, given the chance would you like to put a competetor out of business? we had a guy here was very vocal about a big box hardware store coming in...poor guy, wasn't gonna be able to compete...boo hoo...oops wait a second, this is the guy who put in a tru value franchise and put another family run place out of business 30 years ago...again not pro-AMR here just trying to make sure we keep things in perspective.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Doug, fair enough criticism. Yes I also held the owners who sold out responsible but the way AMR came in after the fact is what has me Anti-AMR.

I in no way said that AMR should not be able to make money, I just think that the way they make the money is wrong. You should see in my posts the reasons why I don't like the way they operate.

AS for your analogy of the big box hardware stores, I don't think that's a valid analogy because if you look at many of the places AMR operates, Independence is one that I'm intimately familiar with is that AMR is the ONLY SHOP available. The citizens had no say in what ambulance service operates in the city but they are required to go by AMR or sign a refusal and go someway else. There is no way that another ambulance service can come in and transport me if I'm injured, I have to go by AMR. That my friend is not Free-enterprise.

AMR likes it that way.

The big box hardware analogy fails because there are choices in hardware stores and you can continue to patronize the small hardware store or you can go to the big box like you said. But you are not required to go to the big box store but in the AMR Situation you are required to utilize AMR because of the exclusive provider agreements with AMR and the city or counties they work out of.

Let me make it perfectly clear, I have no problem with AMR operating as a ambulance service but I do have problems with the way they operate in some areas, Independence MO being one of them.

If you don't have a choice of providers then you DON'T have a choice, right?