education higher than a Bachelor's degree in EMS

[Just Plain Ruff]

There has been quite a bit of discussion over the past year or so and I have a question. This is no way to diminish our distinguished poster wanting info on distance learning of EMS Masters level classes. That is a good post.

I'm curious about this

We've touted that a minimal education would be an Associates and even better if you have a bachelors

So what in the world is a masters in EMS or emergency medicine good for? What can someone do with a Masters in EMS?

EMS Admin? or that equivalent?

If there is indeed a valid animal called the Master's degree in EMS or Emergency Medicine, wouldn't you be pricing yourself out of the EMS market working as a paramedic or emt? If you have a Masters degree in EMS should you even be working as an EMT or Medic?

One other question --- What would the natural progression of education be for this line of training?

EMT - Associates(medic) - bachelors - masters????

I'm just curious

Dust I'm waiting on your response.

[AnthonyM83]

I would think anything higher than a bachelor's in EMS would be for those interested in management, system improvement, emergency planning, prehospital care research teams. It wouldn't really make sense for the average medic working on the streets, since his scope of practice would be the same.

I think a bachelor's would do a good job in giving a medic all the in-depth understanding of body systems. I don't know how much better a medic you'd be adding on the masters.

A logical progression would be EMTB as it is now, which is really just a first responder. Then, for those serious about it, get a bachelor's paramedic degree with coursework similar to that of a biology or physiology major, and then for those who choose it, they can go back for their masters.

[Timmy]

In Australia we have a course Master of Emergency Health which gives you your intensive care cert (http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/handbooks/postgrad/med-82.html) You have to be an onroad ALS paramedic for 2 years before you can do this course.

You can also do courses like Master of Health Science, Master of Health Services Management, Doctor of Health Science which don’t really apply to emergency paramedince that much but I spose if you wanted to get into admin and command they’d work.

[VentMedic]

In some states a Masters degree is required for full time instructors at the Community College level where many of the Paramedic programs are taught. Some adjunct teachers are allowed Bachelors with the Master preferred.

Also Research is an area where the Masters would be needed to write for grants. This would give credibility in collaborating with other professionals in pre-hospital research. There are alot of "articles" written in EMS but rarely to they acheive recognition or credibility in mainstream medical journals. Higher education is key to getting your work published in reputable medical journals that will be read by people who establish standards and control the purse strings.

There are relatively few reseachers in the prehospital realm to gather the data and compile it into a scientific study. The studiies we have read about on this forum could be setup as a study with approved Medical Direction and funding to see if there is a relavent need to change some of the EMS protocols.

[pacman]

Going for a Masters in Public Health wouldn't be such a bad idea either. Other medical professionals seek this degree in order to do research and contribute to the improvement of the medical system. Having such a degree would enable someone who has experience in the streets as an EMT and/or Paramedic to implement changes that could improve emergency medicine as a whole. I can see someone going into management and medical control with these credentials.

Respect isn't given automatically with a masters, but having a degree signifies that you took the initiative to seek further education. In the long run, it also gives your words, written or verbal, that much more credibility.

[kristo]

In Europe, we have such a thing as a bachelors degree in medicine. It's a three year university degree (here, by university, I mean what comes after college at age about 20). This degree is pretty much, as far as I can tell, the same first 2 years as in general medicine, then a similar 3rd year, but a little bit more research-oriented and a BS paper/study to write and defend. In some schools, all medical students have to complete their BS in their 3rd year, but most medical students who go the BS route go straight into some sort of research assignments and end up with PhD's and DSc's, teaching and doing research.

So, maybe EMS providers could do an BS in medicine and then proceed to a masters in EMS. The extra two years could be more hands-on, practical training, similar to masters (or magisters) in psychiatry, engineering, law, etc, where the BS is more theoretical, but the MS degree gives them the more practical education.

This could even be an alternative for those interested in being semi-autonomous health-professionals, but don't want to do the whole doctor thing. Not everbody is so keen on doing 4 years of college + 6 years medicine in university + (in some countries) 0,5 - 1 year internship + 5 years of specialty training to become a family physician.

[UMSTUDENT]

There are degrees in EMS at the graduate level in the United States, they're just very rare and most of them focus on system management and development or education.

[Dustdevil]

There are degrees in EMS at the graduate level in the United States, they're just very rare and most of them focus on system management and development or education.

I think that is pretty much as it should be. I'm afraid I don't really see a lot of outlets for those with graduate education in EMS, even in the future. That's pretty much how it is in every other health science too. Heck, that's pretty much how it is in any field, period. And look at nursing. A MSN gets you a management job, a teaching job, or a clinical specialty (CRNA, NP, CNS), but it does pretty well price you out of the wards.

In over thirty years, we still haven't even gotten EMS education up to the Associates Degree level. I am all for plotting our course for the future. But even if that standard were implemented today, it would be at least thirty more years before we started seeing significant numbers of Bachelors degreed paramedics, much less Masters and beyond. I'd like to see them in education primarily, because that is the most critical need. Things like the so-called "Advanced Practice Paramedic" could exist at the MS level, and practise in a similar realm as the PA or NP, but obviously with a different focus. But, again, education and management would be our priorities, so that those running the field and those preparing the next generation have the insight necessary to do it, and not just MBAs and MPAs.

Now, working out here where I am, with a lot of paramedics who think their little 1000 hour first aid course prepares them to practise medicine, I have come to the very definite realisation that a significantly focused educational track is necessary before letting people loose delivering primary care like that. Paramedic school is a lot like karate school. A little knowledge is dangerous. And what you get in one or two years of either one is really just enough to get your arse kicked.

[zippyRN]

the obvious answers

- advanced practitioners - to maintain parity with advanced practice in other none Physician Health care jobs ...

- educators - to demonstrate backgeound knowledge in excess of the degree or nearly degree preparation for practice of operational staff

- managers -not necessarily post grad clinical qualifications but instead MPH / MBA in healthcare management etc...

[Kaisu]

OK - so I got my EMT Basic a year and a half ago... I got it because it was a hoop I had to jump thru to get into the paramedic program. I cant believe that after this little course they are going to allow me in ambulances to play.... At one point in our training, our instructor said "I would be confident with any one of you if I or a member of my family was sick" - I couldn't believe what I was hearing.... Oh sure, I had to memorize a bunch of stuff... and I learned interesting things (at a very rudimentary level) and I had to practice extremely controlled scenarios a bajillion times so that i could pass the registries.... But I am qualified for nothing... except the school is letting me begin paramedic school in a couple of months.

After paramedic school, which I hope will be some education and not just training, I truly hope someone takes me under wing and starts to teach me real stuff... otherwise, all this is interesting but of little use....

Perhaps a PA ? the trouble is - I want to be out in the field... I want to respond to calls and jump in ditches and climb stairs and do assessments and help people... so if I get more education will I be overeducated for the field ? is that even possible ? Its a dilemma.