Does BLS call for ALS intercept when not needed....

[paramedicmike]

I'm personally a little nervous that Khanek's medical director seems complacent to provide pseudo-ALS level care with undertrained, uneducated providers. I'm a little nervous that the general public has no idea this is going on (although that shouldn't surprise me). So does this mean the service bills for ALS level care? If the answer is 'yes', then that means the service is seeing a "windfall" of money (such as exists in EMS billing) that doesn't trickle to the street level provider.

I guess it goes to show that you can give anyone a new toy and they'll be happy about it even when they have no earthly idea what it is they're doing.

Education counts. By that, I mean formal, university level, book based education. You can present the most eloquent argument in the world (which, by the way, you haven't). But when people who've gone to school for years ask for your qualifications and you tell them 120 hours of night school, you'll be laughed out of town.

Lastly, all those points khanek went to great effort to use as examples are further evidence that he has no idea about what he's talking. I'd go so far as to say that they only reinforce every counterargument presented in response to his. Unfortunately, I don't think he sees it. What's more, I don't think he's willing to listen to anyone here because that just might shatter the very confining glass box into which he's built himself.

-be safe

[Dustdevil]

What's more, I don't think he's willing to listen to anyone here because that just might shatter the very confining glass box into which he's built himself.

Clearly (no pun intended), that box is opaque on five sides.

Either that, or she simply chooses to exercise her vision in only one direction.

[medic4420]

:twisted: I am new to this site but this EMT raises a very good point. I am the director of a small rural Ambulance service and also a Medic of which i am very proud of but to hear other Medics speak as if they are the other level of care that should be given on ambulances just floors me. I was taught in medic class that BLS comes b4 ALS and besides Drs give us the right to do what we do so should we have DRs and nurses on Ambulances since they can provide a higher level of care than Medics. I am not saying this to start a "fight" but we are in this to help our community with the training we are given not to act supperior to fellow EMS professionals that look to us for assistance.

[Just Plain Ruff]

You know, at 21 years old you really have no idea what the world is about. You have lived a sheltered life of school, school, school. From what I can tell (with the help of almost three years toward a psychology degree) you also have some deep issues to work through. I have a son the same age as you are who had the same attitude you have until one day reality smacked him right in the face. When it happens to you I hope and pray it isn't as devastating and life altering as it was for my son all because he chose to take his little sister to school one day, thought he could beat the traffic and got t-boned. She was almost killed. So you know what don't preach to me about how medics are the only ones who can save lives. It was the crew that was on (all emt-bs) that saved her life. Had they not acted quickly, and used the skills that they were taught in school and on the job, I wouldn't have my little girl today. So get your head out of the clouds, come back to Earth, finish your schooling, and join us in the real world where you will truly get to use these 'Critical thinking" skills you brag so much about. And to reiterate what I have said previously, apparently our education here is much better than that else where in the country or even closer to home as we are taught some things that are normally taught to medics. We are taught outside the scope of an EMT-B as our instructor knows that in small rural communities with ALS more than 30 miles away, these are valuable tools for us to learn and take with us.

A quote to ponder

""Whether you are an EMT-B, EMT-I, or EMT-P; you are only as good as your education and experience" With that being said, as your instructor I intend to give you the best education you can get using my knowledge and 40 years in EMS." As stated by my instructor when I took my "boy scout first aid class" aka EMT-B class.

all I can say is WOW to that education comment and now I'm going to go bang my head into a wall. Me thinks he just doesn't get it.

What can you do with that IV Khanek??? Can you give any of the medications that a medic can?

by the way Khanek, who are you referring to in the post quoted above.

[katbemeEMT-B]

First off, I'm not a he I am a female. Secondly, no we don't bill for ALS services we bill at a BLS rate. Thirdly, our MD didn't just hand us some new toys and let us go. He educated us as to what they are, how they're used, indications for use, contraindication, complications, what our next course of action is if there were to be an adverse effect. We actually attended classes for each one including baby aspirin and nitro. We must also attend yearly instruction on these meds to maintain our cert. for using these drugs in which they go through the entire course again. If you didn't pass the class you are not allowed to perform or admin. them. Attending one of the refresher courses does not qualify towards cert. Let's remember it's his a$$ on the line. Do you really think he's just going to let us admin. a drug to a patient without educating us? Next, if any of you would have read what I posted, I have never said that education isn't important. I believe what was said (summed up), is what makes a good EMT is one that continues to learn by attending classes, conferences, listening to others such as medics, doctors, etc, and also learning from experience. My point being that this is what is expected of those on our service. While most strive for this there are those few that feel they don't need to further their knowledge and those are the ones I choose not to work with.

Lastly, if you all feel as EMT's we are so under educated then every medic on this site should stand up, group together, take the EMT's with them, go to the powers that be and say "Hey, we would like to see a better education for our fellow EMT's. They should have more schooling that educates on what they will actually have to deal with once they are out on the streets and how to handle it." It wouldn't hurt my feelings to have some one stand up for me like that. I would have to agree and have said it before that I feel the course doesn't offer enough time to learn what needs to be learned. That is why I take classes when I can and I decided to run on a ALS service in addition to the BLS service. I am one of the lucky ones that has a great group of medic, along with our EMS manager, that believes an EMT is an asset to their service as long as they are willing to learn. By the way, it's the same feeling for the medics. The ones that decide they know it all and don't have anymore to learn don't last there very long. If the manager doesn't fire him/her, the other medics make his/her life miserable and he/she eventually quits. I am not now or ever have been anti-medic. Our BLS service has used them on occasion and yes we were very happy to see them, albeit it was an air unit as a ground unit would take too long to reach us. None the less, they came, took over pt care, and we went on our merry little way happy campers some one with better skills was available.

As to the original post, in our area, no ALS is not called too often. We have no ground units close by (another reason our MD allows the variances) and air units get a little perturbed when they get a call for what could be a quick transport by our BLS service. Oh yeah, we are within 6 minutes of the hospital and no they don't have their own ALS.

With that being said, I am ready to move on to a new subject as this one has been beaten to death.

Good luck to all and stay safe. AND PLEASE continue learning!!!!! :read2:

[katbemeEMT-B]

:twisted: I am new to this site but this EMT raises a very good point. I am the director of a small rural Ambulance service and also a Medic of which i am very proud of but to hear other Medics speak as if they are the other level of care that should be given on ambulances just floors me. I was taught in medic class that BLS comes b4 ALS and besides Drs give us the right to do what we do so should we have DRs and nurses on Ambulances since they can provide a higher level of care than Medics. I am not saying this to start a "fight" but we are in this to help our community with the training we are given not to act supperior to fellow EMS professionals that look to us for assistance.

:bounce: :hello1:

Some one who truly understand EMS and what it's all about! Thank you for your support. You are the type of medic that I would love to work with as I feel you probably would have a lot to teach me. Thanks again!

[spenac]

Man the original question has been long lost and forgotten. Why don't we just all agree we all need more education. As long as we fight amongst ourselves we'll all be looked at as taxi drivers rather than medical professionals.

[Just Plain Ruff]

guys the horse we've been beating is now blue and on the verge of arrest. Let's give the horse a rest.

[spenac]

"Can't we all just get along"

[JCicco345]

SO how about them red sox ?