Anyone use the Thomas ALS or ALS Ultra Pack?

[CivilDefense2002]

I've recently acquired both a Thomas ALS pack as well as their newer ALS Ultra pack. Both at very nice prices too, if I may mention. No way I'd pay the MSRP. A number of people have told me they are using them, but I only have personal experience really with the POS cheapo bags that are out there. Google searches and searches of forums I frequent have turned up nothing substantial. A few threads here mentioned people's distaste for the penchant to overstuff these, but that's it.

The manufacturer's photos of the ALS Ultra are at http://www.thomasems.com/ALS_Ultra.html . The older ALS at http://www.thomasems.com/ALS.html . I think I'll use the ALS for my personal "whacker bag" at home, the ALS Ultra for work. Mainly standbys and such, as it would be university EMS work. Mostly BLS level due to organization's licensure, but some potential for advanced skills sometime in the future, depending on what the medical director is comfortable with.

Anyone got photos, packing lists, etc.? The only thing I've ever found is a packing list from the USAF Air Doc's at Kennedy Space Center specifying their loadout. Problem is that it is designed for physician level, not paramedic or EMT level. No good photos anywhere either. Just the same old ones from Thomas with their 20 year old Intracaths in the top pocket... :shock: I really don't want to reinvent the wheel unless I have to.

Really appreciate any help offered.

-Nick

[Dustdevil]

Google searches and searches of forums I frequent have turned up nothing substantial. A few threads here mentioned people's distaste for the penchant to overstuff these, but that's it.

Haha! Well then I guess I have nothing else to add to that, lol!

Personally, I have a great distaste for the Thomas packs altogether. Quality is good. And they have some visionary ideas. Their packs can be well suited to specific applications. But in general, they are just too heavy and complicated for normal EMS work. ALl those little compartments and wrappers add bulk and weight. Plus, who the hell wants to unwrap an IV bag twice? Isn't once enough? Same thing with all the other little inner bags in there. What benefit is there to wrapping every single item up in a cute little colour coded bag? It just slows you down and makes you have to work harder at memorising where everything is. I prefer the KISS principle. The only benefit I see to the Thomas packs at all is that they are indeed packs instead of bags. That is good for SAR work, but it sucks arse for EMS work. I have two of them here that I would LOVE for somebody to take, because they are useless to me. Too big and heavy. I'd rather carry two smaller bags than one huge, unwieldy bag like the Thomas. I keep one packed tight with combat dressings and IVs just as a Mass Casualty bag, but even here it just sits and gathers dust. I can't imagine an individual ever needing that much crap in one place. I just find the Thomas bags completely pointless altogether, but yes... they are fine quality bags. Their little Aeromed pack is nice, and I have found it useful. But it's overpriced and really doesn't offer that big a benefit over any other bag.

I dunno. If you got a good deal, great. But for your own personal use, you'll never find a need for all that. You'll decide you want your trunk space back long before you ever use that much crap, lol.

Nice avatar! :thumbright:

[CivilDefense2002]

Dustdevil, Thanks for the reply. During my "lurking" I have certainly noticed your wealth of knowledge and experience.

Haha! Well then I guess I have nothing else to add to that, lol!

Personally, I have a great distaste for the Thomas packs altogether. Quality is good. And they have some visionary ideas. Their packs can be well suited to specific applications. But in general, they are just too heavy and complicated for normal EMS work. ALl those little compartments and wrappers add bulk and weight. Plus, who the hell wants to unwrap an IV bag twice? Isn't once enough? Same thing with all the other little inner bags in there. What benefit is there to wrapping every single item up in a cute little colour coded bag? It just slows you down and makes you have to work harder at memorising where everything is. I prefer the KISS principle. The only benefit I see to the Thomas packs at all is that they are indeed packs instead of bags. That is good for SAR work, but it sucks arse for EMS work. I have two of them here that I would LOVE for somebody to take, because they are useless to me. Too big and heavy. I'd rather carry two smaller bags than one huge, unwieldy bag like the Thomas. I keep one packed tight with combat dressings and IVs just as a Mass Casualty bag, but even here it just sits and gathers dust. I can't imagine an individual ever needing that much crap in one place. I just find the Thomas bags completely pointless altogether, but yes... they are fine quality bags. Their little Aeromed pack is nice, and I have found it useful. But it's overpriced and really doesn't offer that big a benefit over any other bag.

Meh. I've heard the points made before, and am well aware of them. Some people really do not like the "bag within a bag" thing. I can certainly understand that. Some of the old Thomas ALS features really don't make much sense to me either. I really don't understand the need for the old-style ALS pack to have three IV setups. Two is probably enough unless you've got some kind of problem with resupply. The airway module itself never made much sense to me, as it places components inside yet another container and increases bulk. I am impressed though with their "ALS Ultra" version. They only increased the height of the bag 2", but removed one IV kit, added the oxygen tank module, got rid of the dumb airway organizer, and made the internal support pockets pullouts. So, I guess you could make one of them an IV kit if you wish. I'd say this one got rid of most of the problems the old-style ALS bag had. My personality is really in favor of organization, so I think the ALS Ultra fits the bill for being well organized like I want without being a hell of elastic loops and redundency.

My reasoning for the purchase was that I need something capable of carrying a decent amount of gear and supplies, plus a D-tank. My choices therefore are limited to the "Breathsaver" type rectangular carry bags, or the Thomas ALS Ultra pack. As it seems most of the "action" right now is standby's, I really do not want to have to carry two bags myself, and don't want to risk needing to split up and not having all I need. No ambulance to operate of for the moment either. The Thomas pack then was the obvious choice to me for the reason you mentioned, that it was a real pack and comfortable to carry for a long time. Lord knows I'm not going to try and look "macho" carrying a huge bag on a shoulder strap for 10 hours. I also thought the ALS Ultra pack had much better organization than the "Breathsaver" types.

I dunno. If you got a good deal, great. But for your own personal use, you'll never find a need for all that. You'll decide you want your trunk space back long before you ever use that much crap, lol.

Yup, got both for about 1/4 price what they'd be new; and while the ALS was used with a couple modules missing, the ALS Ultra was brand new with all of its modules. Very happy with that.

Yeah, the ALS would definitely be overkill for personal use, but I guess I'm jaded from carrying a school backpack every day with heavy biology textbooks. Medpacks always seem light to me. :shock: Was just an idea so it doesn't just sit there not earning its keep. Definitely going to use the ALS Ultra though.

Nice avatar! :thumbright:

Thanks. Civil Defense: the LAST line of defense! or Civil Defense: for when Homeland Security fails. Gotta get one of my dumb CD slogans onto the letterhead somehow. I need to find a life too, way too much time on my hands to think up CD slogans. 8)

Anybody else got photos, packing lists, opinions, anything?

-Nick

[scratrat]

I use them but would rather not because of the bulk and because of the weight. I'd rather scoop them up and do it in the truck instead of routing around in those darn bags!! :x

[Timmy]

These are the bags most Aussie EMS companys use:

http://www.neann.com

I have one of these bags: www.neann.com/Neann%20PRK.htm

[CivilDefense2002]

Scratrat and Timmy: Thanks for replying! I really appreciate the input.

Forgive me, but it seems that everyone is missing the point so far. I already have the Thomas packs. I understand the objections many have to them, and it weighed upon me when I decided to buy them. Perhaps it was a mistake, but the deed has already been done. I am working on getting them stocked and deployed, and am seeking photos, packing lists, etc. for how others have set theirs up.

scratrat: You mentioned that you use them. Any chance of getting some photos and perhaps your daily check-out sheet?

All help is appreciated. Thanks to those who have responded so far.

-Nick

[EMSGeek]

You are looking for a gear list. I see two routes to figuring out what should be in the bag. First look at the what you will be treating rather than what you will be using to treat it, that is look at the kinds of conditions you will see and what you will need to treat them. That approach should help you determine what you will need. In narrowing down what "type" of medicine you will be doing, ie extended wilderness care, medical emergencies with the occasional trauma, impact injuries (ie working motorcross or other high speed events), industrial, etc you should see very clearly what you will need. Once you have that base line established look at issues like resupply, ie do you need to carry enough gear to treat several patients before you can restock. In NYS we have a regulation called Part 800, I believe it is a subset of some larger regulation, that tells us what we need to have on our rigs. See if your region/state has that.

The second thing to do is to look for medical organizations specific to the sort of emergencies you will be dealing with. For wilderness medicine there is the Wilderness Medical Society. These organizations will have had solid discussions about what should be used and carried and often the leading experts in that field are involved.

As I type the thought of looking at premade bags for the situations you would be dealing with occurred to me. Find prestocked bags and look at the lists.

Often the discussion of training vs equipment comes up and the usual conclusion is that with enough training one can do without certain items of gear as some things can be used for multiple purposes. Make sure you are focusing a lot of time on training/education and you will be better off even if you forget something.

Talk to other providers working with you and see what they use.

I hope some of this helped. Good luck!

[CivilDefense2002]

EMSGeek: Good points. I have been seriously considering how my bag situation will need to work for several weeks now. My need is to carry both a reasonable amount of medical junk plus O2. Mostly BLS, but a good possibility of ALS being added very, very soon. Most activities at the moment for me are standbys, resulting in the need to carry this stuff for a while. This lead me to either the Breathsavers, or the Thomas ALS Ultra. Thomas won hands down. Everyone else I operate with is using cheapo no-brand-name bags, and one uses a Galls bag. Not for me... Never liked those things, but at least they're better than the agencies who think everything should be a Pelican case. :shock:

I currently have been toying with the following setup in my head, but really am hoping to see how others have done it. Hate reinventing the wheel, and it seems weird that it seems so many have/are using them but content lists and photos are so hard to find. Seems every bag but this one is easily found described except for the Thomas ALS or ALS Ultra.

-Top Front Pocket - Assessment

BP cuff, stethoscope, trauma scissors, penlight, Broselow tape, assorted junk, etc.

-Bottom Front Pocket - Major Trauma

Multi-traumas, burn sheet, ABD pads, Water-Jel's, Vaseline gauze, Bolin chest seals.

-Right Support Pocket (Two Small Inserts) - Wound Care/Minor Trauma

Band-aids, 4x4's, Steri-Strips, triangulars, Kling, etc.

-Left Support Pocket (Long Insert) - Musculoskeletal

ACE Wraps, Kerlix, finger splints, cold packs, hot packs

-Top Support Pocket - Oxygen Delivery

NC's, NRBM's 2 ea.

-Back Pocket (Holds Shoulder Straps)

Two c-collars, adjustable

-Internal Support Pockets

Empty for the moment. Probably ET tubes and combitube later on. The only disadvantage of the ALS Ultra over the ALS that I can see is that there is no longer ET tube storage in the now-absent airway organizer, so Thomas shows them in one of the support pockets.

-Hidden Pocket

Gloves - sterile/nonsterile, masks, etc.

-Drug Pouch

Nothing besides that evil glucose gel until authorized.

-Intubation

Empty for the moment.

-Pedi Airway

Pedi BVM, pedi NPA's + OPA's, bulb syringe,

-Adult Airway

BVM, OPA's, NPA's

-Oxygen

D-tank

-IV Pockets x 2

Empty for the moment.

Whaddya'll think? It'll be a little empty until the ALS authorizations go through...

-Nick

[Dustdevil]

Whaddya'll think? It'll be a little empty until the ALS authorizations go through...

Who is paying for all of this?

And please tell me you are getting paid for doing this.

[CivilDefense2002]

The University, and yes. But I'd do it for free anyway just for the chance to get experience. Why do you ask?

I'd appreciate your input. Did I miss anything above?

-Nick