Protecting yourself from patients or bystanders...

[whit72]

DT4ems wrote:

I can assure you the litte "tap" (aka the DTP)would be the FIRST thing I would use against a 250lb person high on meth.....while I screramed to my partner to hit the brakes to let me out. The DTP was designed to help not take the pounding or wrestle with the guy that feels no pain.

The Idea is to not be put in the situation where you have to defend yourself from that person. Entirely why if I feel threatened he doesn't ride or the PD comes with me.

Side note to that that story, he picked up a refrigerator in the area they were holding him and threw it halfway across the room. So as much as I am sure that maneuver useful in most situations, I would rather wait for the guys with the badges in this instance.

[DT4EMS]

DT4ems wrote:

I can assure you the litte "tap" (aka the DTP)would be the FIRST thing I would use against a 250lb person high on meth.....while I screramed to my partner to hit the brakes to let me out. The DTP was designed to help not take the pounding or wrestle with the guy that feels no pain.

The Idea is to not be put in the situation where you have to defend yourself from that person. Entirely why if I feel threatened he doesn't ride or the PD comes with me.

Side note to that that story, he picked up a refrigerator in the area they were holding him and threw it halfway across the room. So as much as I am sure that maneuver useful in most situations, I would rather wait for the guys with the badges in this instance.

I agree 100%. I thought you were refereing to "in the back of the ambulance". Even if it was the 250 lb crazed dude....... I still don't want to tie up with him. I train and have options if I did, but my mind set is always finding the way out.

I spend a lot of time trying to help people recognize the "potential" in situations. More and more "anecdotal" stories are surfacing of how EMS providers are attacked on so called "safe" scenes.

Believe me I have been there and done that. I have fought my share of people under the influence. As a police officer I never had a single scuffle with a sober person. As a paramedic my ambulance was car-jacked while I was in the back with a patient. So I don't just pull BS out of the air.

Not being on a bad scene is the best you can hope for. The truth is, it is more likely than not the average EMS provider will face a violent encounter.

So if you already hit the gym, train in some form of contact style self-defense and have a good understanding of what is legal you have a great base. It has to be up to you.

[whit72]

I just read over a few of the brochures.

Interesting reading. I will try and read the rest of them.

Sounds like this training would be very useful, especially in defusing situations. I dot claim to be a professional problem solver but I have been on scenes with some EMS personnel and frankly if they talked to me the way they talk to their pts. I would want to kick their ass also.

I think a big problem is we are not sure how are attitudes or presentation is going to affect the possibly violent pt. Sometimes its like flicking a switch they go from co-operative to violent in a second, these are the ones I am most concerned with. I can handle the drunk, or the punk ass kid showing off in front of his buddies. The truly psychotic ones, you cant predict their actions.

Good luck with these classes. I am sure they are very successful

[Asysin2leads]

All great points except "The law no longer applies".

The law will always apply. Particulary any time one person uses any force against another person. As long as a person can justify their actions as "reasonable" they will stand a better chance when the law does come into play.

DT4, when I said the law no longer applies, I meant it as my own personal mindset. Of course the law applies always, no matter what. In these extremely rare situations, Flight 93 would be an example, or if some 250 pound guy has his hands around my neck and I see that cold black cloud coming down, I will do whatever is necessary, regardless of what the law says. I'll do the stint for manslaughter, I'll smile in the courtroom if the family brings a civil suit, but I won't be dead, and to me that is the most important thing.

[Michael]

I won't be dead, and to me that is the most important thing

Danielle (your amanuensis) wants you to know that it's important to her too. She found this among your dictated notes:

The time is not remote, when I

Must by the course of nature die;

When, I foresee, my special friends

Will try to find their private ends:

And though 'tis hardly understood

Which way my death can do them good,

Yet thus, methinks, I hear them speak:

"See, how the Dean begins to break!

"Poor gentleman, he droops apace!

"You plainly find it in his face.

"That old vertigo in his head

"Will never leave him, till he's dead.

"Besides, his memory decays:

"He recollects not what he says;

"He cannot call his friends to mind;

"Forgets the place where last he din'd;

"Plies you with stories o'er and o'er;

"He told them fifty times before.

"How does he fancy, we can sit

"To hear his out-of-fashion wit?

"But he takes up with younger folks,

"Who for his wine will bear his jokes.

"Faith! he must make his stories shorter,

"Or change his comrades once a quarter:

"In half the time he talks them round,

"There must another set be found.

"For poetry he's past his prime:

"He takes an hour to find a rhyme;

"His fire is out, his wit decay'd,

"His fancy sunk, his Muse a jade.

"I'd have him throw away his pen; --

"But there's no talking to some men!"

And then their tenderness appears

By adding largely to my years:

"He's older than he would be reckon'd,

"And well remembers Charles the Second.

"He hardly drinks a pint of wine;

"And that, I doubt, is no good sign.

"His stomach too begins to fail:

"Last year we thought him strong and hale;

"But now he's quite another thing:

"I wish he may hold out till spring!"

They hug themselves, and reason thus:

"It is not yet so bad with us!"

In such a case, they talk in tropes,

And by their fears express their hopes.

Some great misfortune to portend,

No enemy can match a friend.

With all the kindness they profess,

The merit of a lucky guess

(When daily how-d'ye's come of course,

And servants answer, "Worse and worse!")

Would please them better, than to tell,

That, "God be prais'd, the Dean is well."

Then he, who prophecy'd the best,

Approves his foresight to the rest:

"You know I always fear'd the worst,

"And often told you so at first."

He'd rather choose that I should die,

Than his prediction prove a lie.

Not one foretells I shall recover;

But all agree to give me over.

Yet, should some neighbour feel a pain

Just in the parts where I complain;

How many a message would he send!

What hearty prayers that I should mend!

Inquire what regimen I kept;

What gave me ease, and how I slept?

And more lament when I was dead,

Than all the snivelers round my bed.

My good companions, never fear;

For though you may mistake a year,

Though your prognostics run too fast,

They must be verify'd at last.

Behold the fatal day arrive!

"How is the Dean?" -- "He's just alive."

Abbott: You think we can escape? They'll find us wherever we go! So is there a particular place you'd prefer to have your throat cut?

Costello: Anywhere but around the neck.