AMR and Piners vote to strike in northern California

[Just Plain Ruff]

Dust, we need to get you home. Back to the arms of some beauty back here. Most catfights I've ever seen have been between two not so pretty women who were even uglier because they were drunk

[Scaramedic]

Ooooooooooooooh! CATFIGHT!!

Are either of you hott?

I think its official Dust, you've been in Iraq to long. Whats wrong tired of seeing all your females in black shawls or desert camo and BCG's?

Peace & be safe.

Marty

:joker:

[CoyoteMedic]

This is to great, and I've gotta agree with JPINFV...

[MadAxe]

Haven't checked this board in a while - but good for Piners!!! =D> =D> =D>

It just goes to show that if a group of medics show some strength and solidarity, they'll come out on top every time. We have vastly more strength as a labour unit than we realize. Every EMS manager on this continent is all too aware that they'll lose in a PR battle over wages and working conditions. Nobody wants to see the public put at risk, but when push comes to shove, no EMS manager can afford to take the chance - they'll cave every time (so long as demands are within reason).

And just like I predicted - Fire didn't jump in at the last minute to save the day, the Piners medics didn't all lose their jobs. And yes, those of you who cried doom and gloom throughout this discussion deserve to have your noses rubbed in it. If they'd listened to you they'd have come out of this with jack s**t.

Take this as an example to stand tough and stick together, and we can win, dammit.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Good to have had your predictions come true in this case MadAxe but not every instance will the employees win. I've seen it both ways and yes Fire has come in and taken over and many of the employees were fired.

Don't gloat too much on your predictions though you will find out that you will be wrong the next time or two.

[MadAxe]

Every situation is different, and the same approach to labour relations isn't always going to be successful - or even necessary. But anyone and everyone involved in EMS should understand and appreciate that there is a sea change going on right now in this industry. Those changes are going to have enormous ramifications for the ways in which pre-hospital care is delivered, and the ways in which the human resources of EMT's and Paramedics are recruited and developed.

Both Canada and the U.S. are 'greying' - there is a demographic shift towards an older and older population. That means EMS is going to have higher and higher demands for service for the next thrity or forty years. WIth an across-the-board decline in volunteerism in EMS there is going to be a greater and greater demand for qualified personnel from the agencies that will provide EMS to those aging populations.

That means that we as EMT's and Paramedics are going to have greater and greater power when it comes to demand setting in negotiations, and a stronger and stronger position for those of us fortunate enough to have access to binding arbitration.

BUT! That's only going to be of any value if we all have the guts to stand up for ourselves and stick together. The people making small fortunes running private EMS companies would love nothing more than for all of us to adhere to the idea that 'we can't endanger the public - we should just take whatever they offer us and be thankful to have a job'. They're banking on that philosophy - literally.

It can be done, has been done and will be done, if we all show a little goddamm solidarity!

[Just Plain Ruff]

good points there.

But unfortunately you cannot get blood from a turnip and there are two hot button issues facing the working EMS staff members, pay and medical insurance. Pay can only go so high and comparing a large ems service with big revenue with a small service there is no way that that service can compare in resources yet many mom and pop ambulance services pay better that surrounding areas and then again some don't.

With this piners situation, we had a union rep posting here, a couple of post piners employees and one or two piners employees yet no management. WE got a one sided discussion and that is unfortunately all we are going to get.

I get quite suspicious when a union rep posts things on a message board - smacks of impropriety.

[MadAxe]

...you cannot get blood from a turnip and there are two hot button issues facing the working EMS staff members, pay and medical insurance. Pay can only go so high and comparing a large ems service with big revenue with a small service there is no way that that service can compare in resources yet many mom and pop ambulance services pay better that surrounding areas and then again some don't.

I've heard a lot of arguments from a lot of different people about the notion of 'pricing ourselves out of a job'. That's nonsense. The main factor controlling EMS wages is simple supply and demand. As demand for qualified staff goes up, the wages companies have to pay in order to recruit and retain staff goes up. This is no different for us than it is for any other segment of the workforce. And the demand is going up.

EMS is an essential service that the public will not tolerate doing without. But EMS is also cheap from a budgetary standpoint. Even up here in Canada, with fully socialized health care and next to zero monetary recovery by EMS agencies, the average cost to the property tax base for full ALS-level EMS coverage is miniscule in comparison to other costs.

For the City of Toronto (pop. 4.5 million or so) in 2006, with an average property tax bill of $2093.41, $503.61 went to police services, $204.59 went to fire services, and a measly $40.35 went to EMS. Toronto EMS is a world-class outfit with arguably the best training and equipment in the country, and a host of specialized units like Tactical EMS, Heavy Urban Search and Rescue, Riot Squad Medics, etc. etc. etc. And they do it for a crummy forty bucks a year per household. In Canadian dollars. See for yourself here.

The average salaries for BLS-level medics in Toronto is somewhere over $30.00/hour, though I'm sure the many Toronto EMS medics on here can more accurately comment on that than I can. Their salaries got to where they are because they've bargained hard when needed, and made the City of Toronto understand that they were a vital asset that needed to be paid according to their levels of expertise and responsibility.

Can anyone seriously say that Mom and Pop Ambulance service in the U.S. are going to be run out of business if they're forced to pay their medics wages that are competetive with other services in their area? No government will allow that - it would be tantamount to political suicide to do so. It wouldn't require a particularly deep trip into the budgetary piggy bank to pay for some reasonable enhancements to wages and benefits. Look at the data for yourself.

If we as a group are afraid to apply the same techniques used by every other organized labour force out there, we're never going to be able to enjoy the same benefits they do. Whether that comes in the form of cost-of-living pay increases or improved health care coverage, we can kiss it all goodbye if we're not willing to present a united front when it comes to bargaining with management.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Yes they will go out of business hence the Fire services and big conglomerate services such as AMR and MEdTrans and others to come in and pick up the pieces at a rock bottom price. So yes they will go out of business but not quickly.

[Dustdevil]

And just like I predicted - Fire didn't jump in at the last minute to save the day, the Piners medics didn't all lose their jobs. And yes, those of you who cried doom and gloom throughout this discussion deserve to have your noses rubbed in it. If they'd listened to you they'd have come out of this with jack s**t.

Been reading long?

Nobody said they would jump in and save the day. We said that if the medics went out on strike that the FD would jump in. The medics didn't strike. You're claiming victory for something that nobody ever predicted.

I suppose you predicted 9/11 and the Tsunami too? :roll: