whit72 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 emt 6900 wrote: Thanks to all. After a few days of thinking about this, I really feel that our medical command doc left us hanging. But at least i found out that the pt is OK. I rode past his house today and there he was on his lawn chair in the front yard with a case of beer in a cooler.............SIGH...... Quick question: How would you have handled the situation if he wasn't ETOH? An altered pt can not refuse medical attention, whether its related to ETOH or some other etiology. I am glad it turned out OK for you but the next time you might not be so lucky. This reminds me, we were dispatched to a highway in our area for a MVA on arrival we getting out of the truck and here comes this 250lb gorilla foaming at the mouth and yelling incoherently, we run back to the truck, and I am not talking about a brisk walk I am talking a full sprint. This guy proceeds to pound, shake, kick and punch the truck, as I watch him its obvious he is amped on something. So he is 250lbs and probably has the strength of a small army. Guess what, I am not getting out. I also just cant leave. So we pull up a little further he follows us, continuing on his rampage. Finally PD arrives they take him down with the help of a dog. He gets cuffed, restrained, fully immobilized. Off to the hospital we go. Later we find out its crystal meth, and the guy broke both hands, both feet, and an arm. Did I want to leave this fool on the highway? You bet, but ethically, and legally I cant. So we wait for PD to get there, or until he passes out or knocks himself out, whatever happens first. The pt could be altered from anything, the fact that he is cocked makes me more weary that he is injured. Drunk people fall down, get in MVA's, I have seen them fall off second floor porches get up and walk a half a mile. So the presence of alcohol would make me more suspicious of injury. I don't mean to sound judgmental, these are difficult situations. As far as the kidnapping argument, I have never heard of one provider ever accused. I have seen more then one charged with abandonment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stcommodore Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 My understanding is that if your command doc gives you orders to be able to take someone who they don't feel is able to refuse, then you take them. If the police on scene were unwilling to help I would either request another unit or there Supervisor, another one of my units or supervisor and go from there. We all have to make our own calls in cases like this and in the end documentation is really key to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asysin2leads Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I can't say what I would have done in this situation, because in my neck of the woods, this situation wouldn't have happened. Once you are intox you pretty much lose all of your rights for refusal, and you'd be going to the hospital. I can't speak for your telemetry doc or your PD, but it smells like if they continue with their actions, they will have a lawsuit on their hands. Lets say this guy had a fracture of the neck, and you left him, and oooops, he's paralyzed. Any semi-decent lawyer could make a decent case that this patient could not make an informed decision regarding their healthcare. I'd say document, document, document. Document your concerns, verbalize them to the doc, give them enough rope and stay clear of the fan when the stuff hits it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMTChris Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 You need to work on your convincing skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlio Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 A damn good PCR Definitly, along with the names of the officers, and their badge numbers. If something happens, they were the ones being negligent. Before doing that however, I would definitly call HQ and try to explain the situation to someone who could pull resourses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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