L&S use in large Cities

[1aCe3]

Any resident of a large city knows that sirens are a large part of noise pollution. As someone who use to be a resident, and frequents NYC presently for school and work, I've noticed different uses of L&S.

Basic EMS education teaches that priority one calls are for lights AND siren use. The simple reasoning that I was taught was that the general public may become confused if only one of these are used. Another reason is because people can't always see or hear it from a distance.

However, I have noticed that when certain companies, mostly our lovely FDNY counterparts only use the sirens to alert vehicles directly in front of them, or as they proceed through a intersection with cars in site. (Couple short bleeps). Do they teach you FDNY guys something different in the academy? This is how I can usually tell from listening whether it's a FDNY/911 ambulance, or a private. :roll: The privates, especially the transfer ambulances who are running the emergency usually have everything blaring, with the often change of pitches to make it ever so obnoxious. (Although I was taught that you should change the pitch once in a while to avoid not hearing another emergency vehicle)

Using sirens with your (the driver) discretion, may make your ambulance more susceptible to being hit as leaving both on would ensure that everyone hears and sees you. I guess there would be a less chance of error, but more noises.

What are your thoughts?

The way in which I drive L&S is that when approaching a intersection, I'll go with Pitch 2 left on. When proceeding on a straightway with cars ahead, I'll leave it on pitch 1. With cars right in front of me, I will alternate pitches 2 and 3 which usually gets their attention. :? On a empty street, I'll leave sirens off, and bleep once or twice when approaching/proceeding through another intersection. The lights of course, are left on at all times...

I'm writing this to try to figure out why some companies operate in one way, and to perhaps make my own L&S use safer and more effective without scaring the crap out of the poor old lady walking on the sidewalk of an empty street. :twisted:

[EMT001]

I live in DC and I agree, the sirens can be annoying. I don't think it is a departmental policy, as much as it is personal preferences; some medics never turn it off, others seldom use it. Unfortunately, I live 2 blocks from a major university hospital, so there is no escaping it.

[Scaramedic]

I live in a semi country setting, at night our street is dead. But for some reason the local Fire departments insist on full lights and sirens at 3am with absolutely no traffic anywhere.

When I have worked in larger cities I always tried go with lights only when the streets are dead and when entering neighborhoods. Why wake up the whole neighborhood?

Peace,

Marty

:thumbleft:

[Just Plain Ruff]

In my opinion you open yourself up to tremendous liability if you just run with lights. Some people may see the lights but many will not and if the lights are on and your siren is not on then in the State of Missouri you are not considered running emergency and your liability goes thru the roof.

I'm as guilty as the next person on running hot at times with just lights but that was running thru the town of 5700 people at 3am with lights on only. Why wake the world. But during the day I run both.

We put ourselves at risk every day, going in to scenes that origianlly were safe yet become unsafe, work wrecks on the side of the highways and the like but why put yourself at risk legally and possibly being injured in a wreck if you just have your lights on and not the siren. People don't look for the lights but they sure do hear (most of the times) the sirens and then they see the lights.

I won't put myself at risk. But then again I'm the one who believes that if the person was going to die in the extra 2 minutes or so that it takes me to get to the scene by running non-emergency versus emergency then that person was going to die anyway. Some exceptions though

I'm not telling anyone what to do but my opinion is that if you run lights then you run sirens too. The state of Missouri considers an emergency vehicle going emergency to have both lights and sirens on or that ambulance is not allowed to go emergency. Rules are broken of course. But the courts have not sided with EMS and Fire Agencies who have run lights only.

[Asysin2leads]

Strictly speaking, the FDNY Operational guide states that sirens must remain on constantly if we are using warning signals. The operations guide says a lot of things.

Practically, using a constant siren is not always the best solution, especially given the unique driving situations in NYC. For instance, at 3 a.m, and there are few if any cars on the deserted street you are driving down, do you really need to have the siren on the entire time, or is it better to use it when approaching an intersection or red light? If you are stuck in gridlock and cannot move until the light change, does sitting there with your siren on really help? Following orders is for firemen. Adaption to situations is for EMS.

I've been in EMS for about 8 years all told, and my last physical proved something I have feared for a long time. I am starting to lose certain ranges in my hearing ability. Diesel engines and loud sirens have a way of doing that. So if someone wants to be conservative about using the siren, I am all for it.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Like I said, most of my experience is rural but I have urban experience too. At 3am in a small town of 5800 there might be 5 cars on the street at a single time and 1 of those is the ambulance, 1 is the police department, 1 is the fire truck and 1 is the sheriff. The other is the local drunk driving home from the bar.

That's an exageration but many small towns roll up their sidewalks at 8pm

so I hear what your saying Asys good reasoning but busy streets at 3am should have the L&S on to be safe.

Just my .02

[Dustdevil]

In Dallas and Fort Worth, the official policies were much like NY, I guess. On the books, and according to state case law precedent, it says we had to run both or neither. In practise, everybody uses discretion. Some use way too much discretion. Some don't use enough. But they all use discretion. And nobody gets disciplined unless they get in a wreck, then management gets all indignant and pretends they didn't know what not everybody kept their siren on during the entire response. :roll:

Really, the issue is not judicious use of lights and sirens. The issue is how you are driving. It is my belief that "code 3" driving usually doesn't mean driving any different than anybody else. If you are speeding, cruising through stop signs, making wide turns or running down the wrong lane, then you need to have everything going. But if you are cruising down a straight away with the flow of traffic and not forced to disregard any traffic laws, then yeah... I can do without all that noise. Especially since it has been well established time and time again that it makes no statistical difference in response times.

Also, it took me many years to grow up and figure it out, but earplugs are wonderful little items! They hang around my neck all shift long, and I wear them on all hot runs. Any employer who does not provide you with hearing protection is either stupid or simply doesn't care about their disposable EMT's since they never stick around long enough to get hearing damage anyhow.