college classes and EMTB

[Kiwiology]

Well, I can't argue with that. I think EMT training needs a real overhaul. Our EMT programs should be a year or two. It would go a long way towards professionalising EMS.

Can I get an Amen?

Wait ... *Kiwi sneaks out of sight to avoid getting struck down by Jesus for that whole 16 year absence from church

Can I get an Amen?

[ali.n.348]

i definatly agree with the overhaul of emt because ive experienced some from the patient side of things and some can be very hard to deal with an they can be rough yes they know how to do their job but with little empathy ... an as far as guidelines go they can be so confusing of what an emt can an cant do

[CPhT]

Well, I can't argue with that. I think EMT training needs a real overhaul. Our EMT programs should be a year or two. It would go a long way towards professionalising EMS.

I agree with the need for overhaul. Being on the back side of the program right now, I feel like they tried to cram a year's worth of education into 15 weeks, and it shows. If nothing else, it should be a two semester program. The downside is that I'm not about to spend a year (or two) in an educational program to make a whopping $9/hour. If the organisation, as a whole, decides that it needs to up the educational requirement for EMT-B, then they need to reciprocate with pay.

The one thing I would disagree with is the professionalism aspect. It takes more than a classroom to teach that, and either you have it, or you don't.

[Just Plain Ruff]

The downside is that I'm not about to spend a year (or two) in an educational program to make a whopping $9/hour.

But those in college are doing it for 4 years these days. That's what the OWS movement is partly about. Getting a harvard education to flip burgers or lay brick. Why shouldn't college be free?

[systemet]

But those in college are doing it for 4 years these days. That's what the OWS movement is partly about. Getting a harvard education to flip burgers or lay brick. Why shouldn't college be free?

As a rabid socialist, and foreigner, I don't see why it can't be. The US has the world's largest economy, and some of the world's lowest tax rates. Increase the tax rates slightly = free college = less of a class system = more intergenerational social mobility = less angry poor people + adapting to providing knowledge-based services in a rapidly changing global economy where a grade 10 education doesn't cut it any more.

I agree with the need for overhaul. Being on the back side of the program right now, I feel like they tried to cram a year's worth of education into 15 weeks

I felt like this too. Even medic was too short. I took some university sciences after, and felt like I was learning a lot of things that I should have been taught in medic school.

and it shows. If nothing else, it should be a two semester program. The downside is that I'm not about to spend a year (or two) in an educational program to make a whopping $9/hour. If the organisation, as a whole, decides that it needs to up the educational requirement for EMT-B, then they need to reciprocate with pay.

I think this becomes a chicken-and-the-egg argument though. Right now, when some EMT-B programs are a couple of nights a week for four weeks, there's a surplus of qualified people that drives the labour cost down. If the program becomes longer / more challenging, it will reduce the number of qualified applicants, resulting in greater pay. In the same note, where's the incentive for the employer's to increase pay now in the hope that the training will become longer. I think it has to go the other way. Increase the education, then the pay will follow.

The one thing I would disagree with is the professionalism aspect. It takes more than a classroom to teach that, and either you have it, or you don't.

To some extent, I agree with you. There are definitely a lot of people out there who choose to act in a very professional manner with the current educational standards. But, I think in most careers / professions, where you have a bachelor's level preparation, you see more professional behaviour. Now perhaps I'm being an idealist, as I've seen less than professional behaviour from physicians, lawyers and professors, and perhaps I'm confusing cause and effect -- perhaps people predisposed to more professional behaviour are also those predisposed to enter more academically rigorous programs?

I guess part of my point, that perhaps could have been stated better, was more that, right now, EMS isn't a profession. There are individual EMTs and paramedics that exhibit qualities of professionalism, and operate at a high professional standard. But I wouldn't say that we can elevate ourselves to the status of profession, and have it mean anything more than professional realtor, or professional hairdresser, without getting at least a baccalaureate behind the paramedic.

And 100 hours for an EMT is a travesty. [This is not to knock EMTs in the current system, I was one, and to some extent I am one, just with a wider scope, more education, etc. Most of us took the best training available at the time we went through school. But the educational standards should be raise, and aren't doing any of us any favours.]

[Just Plain Ruff]

As a rabid socialist, and foreigner, I don't see why it can't be. The US has the world's largest economy, and some of the world's lowest tax rates. Increase the tax rates slightly = free college = less of a class system = more intergenerational social mobility = less angry poor people + adapting to providing knowledge-based services in a rapidly changing global economy where a grade 10 education doesn't cut it any more.

sure college should be free as well as many other things in life like health care and food that is if you like paying 50% or more in taxes.

Due to my income I already pay 40% for federal, state and local taxes. I'm not willing to pay much more. I'm not a socialist so I do not believe that college should be free nor do I think health care should be free.

We could get into this debate over taxes and other stuff but that's not what I'm here for.

I already pay my fair share.

[chbare]

Let us not forget the United States has just a itty bitty debt problem. We are likely looking at raising taxes and cutting college funding (already occurred in my state) as a band aid for our insolvent debt problem, biggest economy or not. Also, many of the "socialised" countries in this world are doing a financial downward spiral. Look at Europe: Insolvent debt, several countries potentially facing default, and a Euro that is on the brink.

[Just Plain Ruff]

And you have people striking in London because they are being asked to work a few more hours to help pay for their pensions.

I know that's not the only reason why they are striking but it's I believe one of the cornerstones of the cause of the strike.

So how's socialism working for you in Europe?

[systemet]

sure college should be free as well as many other things in life like health care and food that is if you like paying 50% or more in taxes.

Let me start by saying that I think we would have a great time if we could sit down and chat about this in person over a couple of beers. You seem like a really nice guy, and you're a great contributor here. Please understand that while I disagree with you, this isn't an attack on you personally.

Personally, I'm happy to pay higher taxes to have cheaper (or free) education than in the US, and to have free healthcare. Like anything in life, this is a personal choice / taste / preference. I don't live in the states, and there's little danger that I'm going to clone myself 150 million times, move to somewhere with mountains, and subvert the entire democratic process to force everyone in the US to live the way I think they should

I'm sure you're proud of your country, as I am of mine. I see my taxes as money I contribute to my society, and to my country (or right now, the country I'm living in temporarily), that helps provide for my family, and for others. I'm ok with the taxes I pay (although, right now, they're very high). You might not be, and that's fine.

Due to my income I already pay 40% for federal, state and local taxes. I'm not willing to pay much more.

But this is your highest marginal rate, right? I assume you still have a basic exemption level, and then you pay lower rates for certain parts of your income, and the 40% is just what you pay on income earned over a certain amount, right?

And if you don't want to pay more, then great, vote republican. We can agree to disagree. Ultimately both of us are probably going to be living in countries where we have to pay some form of tax and get some sort of services back for those dollars for the forseeable future. We may just differ on what services we expect, and how much we're willing to pay for them.

I'd rather have less money to spend on goods and services, and get a wider range of services provided by my state. I've never experienced not having universal healthcare, and to be honest, I'd be scared to live without it.

I'm not a socialist so I do not believe that college should be free nor do I think health care should be free.

But you're probably ok with paying taxes for road construction? Or schools? Or the military? These are government interventions in the economy as well. I'm a socialist, in the social democrat sense. Where we probably differ is in what services we think government should provide, and how much should be funding via taxation versus user fees.

We could get into this debate over taxes and other stuff but that's not what I'm here for.

Which is fine. If you want to chat more, I'm here, and you're welcome to pm me.

I already pay my fair share.

But this is a personal opinion too, right? I mean, I kinda feel the same way here, although I'd probably be willing to pay more for better services. I just can't imagine what I'd want that's not provided where I'm currently living.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Let me start by saying that I think we would have a great time if we could sit down and chat about this in person over a couple of beers. You seem like a really nice guy, and you're a great contributor here. Please understand that while I disagree with you, this isn't an attack on you personally.

Personally, I'm happy to pay higher taxes to have cheaper (or free) education than in the US, and to have free healthcare. Like anything in life, this is a personal choice / taste / preference. I don't live in the states, and there's little danger that I'm going to clone myself 150 million times, move to somewhere with mountains, and subvert the entire democratic process to force everyone in the US to live the way I think they should

I'm sure you're proud of your country, as I am of mine. I see my taxes as money I contribute to my society, and to my country (or right now, the country I'm living in temporarily), that helps provide for my family, and for others. I'm ok with the taxes I pay (although, right now, they're very high). You might not be, and that's fine.

But this is your highest marginal rate, right? I assume you still have a basic exemption level, and then you pay lower rates for certain parts of your income, and the 40% is just what you pay on income earned over a certain amount, right?

And if you don't want to pay more, then great, vote republican. We can agree to disagree. Ultimately both of us are probably going to be living in countries where we have to pay some form of tax and get some sort of services back for those dollars for the forseeable future. We may just differ on what services we expect, and how much we're willing to pay for them.

I'd rather have less money to spend on goods and services, and get a wider range of services provided by my state. I've never experienced not having universal healthcare, and to be honest, I'd be scared to live without it.

But you're probably ok with paying taxes for road construction? Or schools? Or the military? These are government interventions in the economy as well. I'm a socialist, in the social democrat sense. Where we probably differ is in what services we think government should provide, and how much should be funding via taxation versus user fees.

Which is fine. If you want to chat more, I'm here, and you're welcome to pm me.

But this is a personal opinion too, right? I mean, I kinda feel the same way here, although I'd probably be willing to pay more for better services. I just can't imagine what I'd want that's not provided where I'm currently living.

I love this debate.

I have not the time right now to answer all your items but I will agree with you, I am happy to pay what I'm paying. I think we basically agree on things but are looking at it from two different directions.

I am for limited government and am not planning on voting one single party line. The current group of legislators as well as president have made me quite angry and I don't know who to vote for yet but I guarantee I will vote for the candidates who fall most in line with my belief structure. I would say I'm more of a conservative libertarian but I don't fall in line with all of what they believe.

So why don't we meet somewhere in the middle between our two cities and have those beers. I now have enough frequent flier points on Delta to get anywhere in the world now.