Political Correctness and Terminology

[emtannie]

I was wandering through the threads tonight, and some thoughts came to mind.

Why is a female nurse called a nurse, but a male nurse is called a murse or male nurse? Why do we differentiate for nursing, but you don’t see “female doctor” and “male doctor” or “female medic” and “male medic”?

If we say it is because nursing has always been a predominantly female career choice, why don't we use that same reasoning for doctors and medics?

Just thinkin.....

[DwayneEMTP]

I had never seen 'murse' as an official title. I've always assumed it was a tongue in cheek play on words...?

Dwayne

[Kiwiology]

I'd say thats exactly what it is Dwayne

[chbare]

Agreed with the above. If you really want to discuss the nursing name game, you should take a look at all the drama the DNP movement is causing.

Take care,

chbare.

[emtannie]

Guys... I didn't mean it as an official title, but as a term we use when discussing co-workers or someone we have been dealing with. Sorry I wasn't more clear....

[JPINFV]

Agreed with the above. If you really want to discuss the nursing name game, you should take a look at all the drama the DNP movement is causing.

Take care,

chbare.

Can we please not get started on the noctors? Noctors demanding independent practice rights and increased scopes of practice is like a paramedic wondering why he can't work as a nurse in the ICU.

Edited May 6, 2010 by JPINFV

[Kiwiology]

Can we please not get started on the noctors? Noctors demanding independent practice rights and increased scopes of practice is like a paramedic wondering why he can't work as a nurse in the ICU.

What is wrong with an appropriately educated nurse practitioner being able to dish out meds off a list? That's like saying a PA can't prescribe!

[JPINFV]

What is wrong with an appropriately educated nurse practitioner being able to dish out meds off a list? That's like saying a PA can't prescribe!

There's nothing wrong with mid levels operating under the supervision (ok... if the NPs want to call it "collaboration," so be it). However, I take issue with the concept that mid-levels should have independent practice rights. Would you go to an NP who was not supervised by a physician? If DNPs are given independent practice rights, does that mean that their training is equal to physicians? Where is the line between what is "nursing" and what is "medicine." If a DNP is diagnosing and treating without supervision, are they then practicing medicine, thus falling under the purview of the Board of Medicine instead of the Board of Nursing? What happens if the DNP misses a diagnosis because the pattern doesn't match the protocol? At what point do you say, "Enough is enough, if you want to be a [-ist] you go to [-al] school? If there's a nursing shortage, wouldn't making nurses into independent providers make the shortage worse?

Let's take this another way. Should we let paramedics with masters degrees in EMS act as a medical director?

[Eydawn]

Speaking as someone who's looking to eventually become a NP, I couldn't agree with JPINFV more. You want to be a damn doctor, you suck it up and go to MEDICAL SCHOOL just like every other doctor. You want to be a nurse practitioner, you better accept that at the end of the day you will answer to a doctor. I am all for allowing NP's to prescribe, but under a doctor's supervision and final veto...

ROFL @ "Noctor" btw... that totally made my morning!!!

Oh my gosh. I'm gonna walk around the building this morning chuckling "noctor... snrk" under my breath... coz we have a nutty NP who comes in to see some of our residents who has missed several things but who also thinks sunshine comes from her every orifice... and then asks our LPNs how to write out prescriptions.

Noctor. My new favorite word!!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

(Future anti-Noctor)

[JayEMTP]

Speaking as someone who's looking to eventually become a NP, I couldn't agree with JPINFV more. You want to be a damn doctor, you suck it up and go to MEDICAL SCHOOL just like every other doctor. You want to be a nurse practitioner, you better accept that at the end of the day you will answer to a doctor. I am all for allowing NP's to prescribe, but under a doctor's supervision and final veto...

ROFL @ "Noctor" btw... that totally made my morning!!!

Oh my gosh. I'm gonna walk around the building this morning chuckling "noctor... snrk" under my breath... coz we have a nutty NP who comes in to see some of our residents who has missed several things but who also thinks sunshine comes from her every orifice... and then asks our LPNs how to write out prescriptions.

Noctor. My new favorite word!!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

(Future anti-Noctor)

You obviously have not researched what a Nurse Practitioner is or have no understanding of higher education. My wife has been an NP for 15 years and also holds a Ph.D. to teach at the University. Her students may address her as "Doctor" because of her education. However, the students and my wife know the difference between M.D. and a Ph.D. for an educator or the doctorate given for achieving higher education. Obtaining higher education is nothing new for RNs or any health care profession, with the exception of EMS, especially for those who want to advance professional status and respect.

The Doctorate degree is becoming the entry level for NPs like it or not. There is not another way to go higher than Masters but to obtain a doctorate right now. Many of the other health care professions now have Masters and Physical Therapy has a doctorate which is being recommended for entry. Physical Therapists also know the difference between MD and a doctorate of higher education in other professions. If you go to almost any major university hospital that does research, you will find nurses, Speech Therapists, Radiology Technologists, Dietitians, Respiratory Therapists, Occupational Therapists and Engineers holding advanced degrees like Masters and Doctorates. They don't believe they are Medical Doctors. Educators at the universities hold doctorate degrees and unless they are also MDs, they don't hold themselves out to be Medical Doctors. Other professions generally have a better understanding of higher education and advancing requirements. It is generally those with very little education that want people to think they know the most.

These issues of insecurity amongst other providers always come up when any profession raises its education requirements because health care is a business and providers are competing for reimbursement and funding. There are turf wars that do go into play when it comes to making out a budget for a health care system at the managerial level. Education helps to level the playing field and give the different professions a bigger voice. Even when the RNs made a two year degree their entry level over 30 years ago, some MDs thought that was outrageous and that nurses were in no way a profession which deserved respect. EMS hasn't raised its education standards in over 40 years so there is little for those here to compare to understand the process, the gains and even a few losses that may go with increased responsibility or liability.

For those in EMS who may have never been exposed to higher education can not even conceive having an Associates degree as the entry level education and believe that would make them even more like a doctor than they already are. Some may even avoid that much education (Associates) because it would be unnecessary to have that much education and be confused with a doctor especially since they can already do all the skills of a doctor with complete autonomy in the field.

If you have this preconceived notion that NPs do not know the difference between an MD and their profession I suggest you do a little more research and shadow NPs in various work areas. I also suggest you find out what they do know and what purposes they do serve. Also, if you are not for the advancement of a profession by education, you might want to stick with EMS. Other professions understand that medicine is evolving and it takes a lot of education, ambition and innovative thinking for the future of health care to stay viable.

With your piss poor opinion of NPs already, you would not be doing that profession any favors by going into it. Also, an LPN would not be able to write a prescription and should be able to explain that to anyone who asks. Not everyone in nursing or health care is a stupid as some in EMS want people to believe to distract from the inadequacies of the EMS profession. It is also fairly easy to see where JPINFV, whose label is EMT-B/Med Student, lands when it comes to respect for other professions, especially nursing, when or if he even finishes med school. He will have to learn how to interact with many different professionals with many different education levels. Going against a profession for obtaining a higher education level or advancing professional status is not one that has the best interests of patients in mind. An an EMT he probably has also argued against advancing to even the Paramedic level because that could erode the cause for EMTs and the creation of more Paragods.

Why is a female nurse called a nurse, but a male nurse is called a murse or male nurse? Why do we differentiate for nursing, but you don’t see “female doctor” and “male doctor” or “female medic” and “male medic”?

As for this topic, EMS does differentiate their female medics and usually divides them into two categories but I seriously doubt if you would like to hear either one. This started from the time the first female became a Paramedic and is still practiced today but not always to their face due to disciplinary actions that are now in place to squelch that type of behavior. While it may not be as prominent in EMS agencies that have a higher percentage of women, it may still be present. Those who believe they own a profession, just like the MDs who believe they own all higher education titles, will still complain and do the usual name calling to show their superiority.