Is this poor judgment or someone being too nosey

[Lone Star]

I feel your pain. I've dealt with this issue from the management and employee side of the fence. As a manager, you are supposed to enforce rules and trying to shield the organization from potential liability. In cases such as these, there are huge stakes because if someone files with the EEOC or other agency or watchdog group outside the company, they can result in large fines. Add possible media coverage and those numbers go even higher, and also resulting in bad publicity for the organization. These things also go beyond any collective bargaining agreement and in my experience, any discipline imposed is not likely to be reversed or even diminished.

Stupid- yes. Childish. Yes.

PC run amok- ABSOLUTELY.

Even in the name of 'protecting the company', what I don't understand is how someone that didn't even hear the joke/comment/story first hand can be 'offended' and file sexual harrassment charges against the person who said/wrote the 'offensive material'.

As a manager, you have to draw the line on "I heard from __________, who heard it from _________ that ____________ said ______________; and I'm offended by that!".

Yes, I may be the person that said it 3 days ago, but the last person (or ONLY person in my case) to get offended....they should have filed a complaint against the last person to say it, not hammer someone that never said it to the 'offended party'.

Then again, since that FTO just HAD to know what we talked about, that should have negated any room to be 'offended' by what took place in our truck!

[aussiephil]

I never thought about the story in that it was about harrasment of any sort (and yes I do get that it is) but more at why is a suicide being reported on. One thing i like about my community is that suicides are not reported in the media. I honestly cant think of many reasons except two where I think that death is the answer.

Happiness,

yes this is the story of a man who committed suicide, but more to the point the series of events that led to him taking his own life & the fact that he felt he was forced into this action through a 3rd party, uninvolved. There is possible impications in this for all of us, especially considering EMS has a lot of 'Black' humour that many people would consider offensive, but to us is simply a coping mechanism.

How would you feel if someone reported you for an off the cuff comment to your partner that they considered offensive, especially if it related to a case you had just been on?

[HERBIE1]

Even in the name of 'protecting the company', what I don't understand is how someone that didn't even hear the joke/comment/story first hand can be 'offended' and file sexual harrassment charges against the person who said/wrote the 'offensive material'.

As a manager, you have to draw the line on "I heard from __________, who heard it from _________ that ____________ said ______________; and I'm offended by that!".

Yes, I may be the person that said it 3 days ago, but the last person (or ONLY person in my case) to get offended....they should have filed a complaint against the last person to say it, not hammer someone that never said it to the 'offended party'.

Then again, since that FTO just HAD to know what we talked about, that should have negated any room to be 'offended' by what took place in our truck!

You are right- the problem with being a manager is knowing when to step in when you "hear" something 3rd party. On the one hand, you need to be proactive about problems, and even if you don't do anything officially, an overheard comment could present an opportunity to nip something in the bud. Bring the parties in, counsel them, remind them of possible repercussions of offensive/derogatory remarks to the employees as well as the company. No discipline imposed, just a talk to stop a small problem from becoming a bigger one.

What you must do is at least document that meeting in a general way- "discussed proper workplace conduct, definitions for harassment, etc" in order to protect yourself as a manager. If things DO escalate, everyone involved will be questioned, and your actions/inactions as a supervisor could make you liable as well. I've seen it happen.

The other option is to wait, but you need to be sure this is not a pattern that will repeated, and for that you need to be damn sure of your employees. Dangerous option, to be sure, and that puts your arse on the line.

Happiness,

yes this is the story of a man who committed suicide, but more to the point the series of events that led to him taking his own life & the fact that he felt he was forced into this action through a 3rd party, uninvolved. There is possible impications in this for all of us, especially considering EMS has a lot of 'Black' humour that many people would consider offensive, but to us is simply a coping mechanism.

How would you feel if someone reported you for an off the cuff comment to your partner that they considered offensive, especially if it related to a case you had just been on?

The problem with a harassment/hostile workplace type issue is that it can escalate well beyond the boundaries of the company. That is why management needs to keep a lid on it BEFORE it gets out of hand. Is it wrong that a 3rd person comment can set a process into motion like this- yep, but such is the way in our litigious society. In the end, this is a human resources problem, and depending on the size of the company, there may be a single person responsible for hiring, firing, and issues such as this, or it may be an entire department. A simple personality conflict rarely escalates beyond the company and can be handled in house, but as soon as you inject race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, the organization loses control and ultimate responsibility for the course of events that can follow.

In the OP, I would suggest there is an ulterior motive from the person who was allegedly offended by the overheard remark- designs on a promotion, protecting their job, an unknown conflict with one or more of the people involved. Who knows. I would also suggest the person who committed suicide had other issues as well, and this incident was merely the last straw.

[Lone Star]

You are right- the problem with being a manager is knowing when to step in when you "hear" something 3rd party. On the one hand, you need to be proactive about problems, and even if you don't do anything officially, an overheard comment could present an opportunity to nip something in the bud. Bring the parties in, counsel them, remind them of possible repercussions of offensive/derogatory remarks to the employees as well as the company. No discipline imposed, just a talk to stop a small problem from becoming a bigger one.

What you must do is at least document that meeting in a general way- "discussed proper workplace conduct, definitions for harassment, etc" in order to protect yourself as a manager. If things DO escalate, everyone involved will be questioned, and your actions/inactions as a supervisor could make you liable as well. I've seen it happen.

The other option is to wait, but you need to be sure this is not a pattern that will repeated, and for that you need to be damn sure of your employees. Dangerous option, to be sure, and that puts your arse on the line.

The problem with a harassment/hostile workplace type issue is that it can escalate well beyond the boundaries of the company. That is why management needs to keep a lid on it BEFORE it gets out of hand. Is it wrong that a 3rd person comment can set a process into motion like this- yep, but such is the way in our litigious society. In the end, this is a human resources problem, and depending on the size of the company, there may be a single person responsible for hiring, firing, and issues such as this, or it may be an entire department. A simple personality conflict rarely escalates beyond the company and can be handled in house, but as soon as you inject race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, the organization loses control and ultimate responsibility for the course of events that can follow.

In the OP, I would suggest there is an ulterior motive from the person who was allegedly offended by the overheard remark- designs on a promotion, protecting their job, an unknown conflict with one or more of the people involved. Who knows. I would also suggest the person who committed suicide had other issues as well, and this incident was merely the last straw.

What I still fail to understand (at least from the Managements point of view) is this:

The comments were made to Becky. Frieda (the FTO) just HAD to know what Becky and I talked about. Since it was really none of FTO Frieda's business what we talked about, how can she get ofended FOR Becky when Becky wasn't offended by the topic of conversation? Furthermore, since Becky wasn't offended; why am I getting a write-up placed in my personnel file?

I understand that Management has an obligation to deal with sexual harrassment in the workplace, and to keep 'hostile environments' from occurring. But in this case, the person the comments were made to thought they were hillarious (which is how they were intended). As far as I can see, the ONLY person in this whole scenario who has a RIGHT to be offended is Becky.

Maybe I'm missing something crucial here, but the way I see it; the topic of conversations between two partners while on the road, is between those two people. If they're both comfortable with the subject matter, then there's no harrassment or hostile work environment. A third party who may be offended by how my partner and I talk to each other has no grounds to file any type of complaint. There is no 'pattern of bad behavior' that needs to be corrected here.

Even by simply documenting the fact that the employees were 'counseled' will generate negative documentation in the employee's personnel file. This could come back to haunt the employee when it comes time to consider them for positional advancement, raises and bonuses.

* NOTE: All names in the above statement are fictional. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.